Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #62872
From: Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New Gearbox and P-Port Renesis Update- for Neil Unger
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 07:29:25 +1100
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Charlie,  No testing whatever.  It comes back to basic instinct.  To get the tests required would put the cost out of reach of everyone.  No I do not do aerobatics.  Everyone has their own opinion re what is “adequate “ in these things.  Just how much will the engine rear plate stand?  All these questions are relevant.  So to directly answer your question,  I have not directly addressed these issues.  The only quick way is to test to destruction.  Everything in this life is a risk. Each individual must assess what risk is acceptable.  Cheers,  Neil
 
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 11:14 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Gearbox and P-Port Renesis Update- for Neil Unger
 
Please keep us updated. I'm really hopeful that the Renesis P-port with plenum/throttle body/port injection will idle at a more conventional rpm, since it has less overlap than a 13B & better mixture 'insertion'.
 
I'm guessing that you don't do acro in that airframe. Did you do any stress analysis on mounting the drive plate with just the round spacers & using the motor mount attached to the plate? IIRC, Tracy was a bit concerned with using the plate for the motor mount attach, even with his block shaped spacers, since the plate now carries the engine weight in bending, in addition to the drive weight. He also wasn't crazy about cutting pockets in the plate, because it removed material in some highly stressed areas. Probably not a major issue in normal category, but we RV drivers have to be a little more cautious. :-) How did you address those issues?
 
Again, please keep the info coming. you guys are doing a lot to keep the rotary movement alive!
 
Charlie
 
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Charlie,  actually still experimenting.  The housing is turned on a jig in the lathe as the cost of a thread tap for that size exceeds $2000!! Ouch.  The inner that seals onto the plug was just high temp sealer.  The outer can be sealer or wick in locktite.  The plug is aluminium with a taper that is left rough to turbulate the air. apparently very necessary.

There are many ways to p port, so about to get some scrapped housings to experiment with various methods.  Cheapest and best whatever that turns out to be.   

My second engine has a single TB.  About to fire up so will be a ball of knowledge as to what to NOT do shortly.

Attached shows the TB and PSRU. I have put 2.25 runners on  to see it it makes a difference. (not shown)  Neil.


On 10/17/2016 11:06 PM, Charlie England wrote:
Hi Neil,
 
Thanks for the pics, and please keep sharing.
 
Can you give us a blow-by-blow on the process? Do you simply bore the housing on a mill? Straight threads? How do you seal them? Any special techniques where the port goes through the chrome liner? Thread diameter? ID of the pipe? Aluminum, steel, or stainless?
 
And are you saying that one of you is running individual TB's, as shown in the pics, and the other has a plenum with single TB? Any noticeable differences in HP, BSFC, idle quality, etc?
 
My hat's off to y'all; you're doing some really interesting and innovative work!
 
Charlie
 
On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Kelly, on the twin TB they are 50 mm while on the single (cheaper) is 80 mm, comes off a V8.  Neil.


On 10/17/2016 3:30 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
Neil,
  What size are the throttle body throats ??............
 
Kelly Troyer
 
On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Charlie  If your eyes are good enough you can jsu see the threads on the inlet P port plugs.  They are joined with the clamp to the TB's.  I Have another close up I will try and find.  Neil

 
On 10/17/2016 2:33 PM, Charlie England wrote:
And total size of the email must be less than 200K, if memory serves. Do you have any image resizing software?

Charlie
(wanting to see details on those screw-in P-ports)

On 10/16/2016 10:26 PM, Neil Unger wrote:

Chris,  Only one Pic per email seems to be the go,  Neil


On 10/17/2016 2:07 PM, Christian And Tam wrote:
No worries
Do you have a personal email as I can't seem to post to this forum with pics
 
Cheers

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Oct 2016, at 6:34 am, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Christian
What manifold pressure do you see at idle?  I would love to see a few pictures of your FWF.
 
 
Bobby
 
 
 


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:24 PM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Bobby
I went for a single 90mm tb and plenum over the opposite side of the motor and seems to work well, idles at approx 2150 and happily there.
Could get lower but prop speed is low enough.
 
Cheers
Christian

On Monday, 17 October 2016, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Individual TB's were used so they could be located as close to the block as possible for improved idle and throttle response. Idle is still at 18"  MP cold and a little lower after warm up. The renesis should have little or no overlap so the single throttle body before the intake manifold appears to work well.

Sale is pending for second buyer. Not sure if engine is staying with the plane or being removed.

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 16, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Bobby,
> Do you know why he did the three TBs and not a plenum with one TB?
> Also I thought I saw where the sale of his plane was pending.  What is going on there?  Was it sold as a flying plane or did you remove the engine?
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 8:50 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Gearbox and P-Port Renesis Update- for Neil Unger
>
> Mark Steitle experienced sticky slide throttle. He modified it several times and eventually switched to one butterfly TB per rotor.
>
> Bobby
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Doug,  Had severe problems with a slide throttle,  went with butterfly and no problems since.  Neil.
>>
>>
>>> On 10/16/2016 7:07 PM, Doug Lomheim wrote:
>>> Hi Neil:
>>>
>>> I have read where some P-Port attempts have resulted in a “sticky† throttle due to suction at certain power applications, etc.  Do you experience any issues such as that with your set up?
>>>
>>> thx.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
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