---

From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 6:01:37 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

----- Original Message ----- From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:32 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake > Jarrett,
>     Charlie may be on to something here about the "Conical"
> parallel
> mount..........gives you
>
> more to mull over.................<:) (just what you need) 
>  
> Kelly Troyer
> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:06:54 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
>
> 2nd Kelly's opinion. the info I have said type 2 was for engines
> with *extended
> hub* constant speed prop (~2 1/2" beyond a normal constant speed),
> which moves
> the cg forward a lot. Van's no longer even supplies type 2 mounts
> because they
> are so rare.
>
>
> IMO, the only reason to do dynafocal at all is because the mounts
> are so common.
> the old 'conical' style mount (4 parallel bolts) would be just
> fine for a rotary
> with its inherently smooth operation. The reason Lyc did the
> dynafocal was an
> attempt to damp their flat 4's horrendous vibration pattern (not
> that
> effective...). The conical mount Lyc motors can be converted to
> dynafocal by an
> engine shop, implying that the bolt circle is virtually identical.
> The downside
> to dynafocal is that the rubbers cost about a factor of 10-15 more
> money than
> conical mount rubbers. Less than $30 for a set of conical; $300-
> $500 for
> dynafocal.
>
>
> I still have available the dyna ring off my original RV motor
> mount, if there's
> a scanning shop in Jackson MS. If you can find a shop, let me know
> & I'll take
> it there for a scan.
>
> To address the concern about attachment strength: with a new
> housing, it should
> be relatively simple to add a piece to grab the top of the middle
> iron or even
> the bellhousing flange top bolts if you're really paranoid. I'm no
> engineer, but
> I'd think that there is plenty of bolt & aluminum area to take the
> shear loads;
> the only question in my mind would be the bolts at the top that
> will be in
> tension in the cast iron casting. I have a hard time believing
> that 6 gs could
> stretch the 4 or 5 bolts across the top of the 'stack' enough to
> affect the
> engine, at the relatively low power levels that will be used in
> a/c. (I'm
> strictly talking about 2 rotor engines, not the 3+ rotor versions.)
>
> Charlie
>
> On 4/26/2011 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
> Jarrett,
> >
> >     The "Mistral" 13B engine (and their 20B) CG of 9.44 and
> 11.73  inches
> >respectively was complete with
> >
> >all accessories and redrive (which is heavier than Tracy's RD1X
> re-drives of 44
> >lbs)................The addition
> >of a constant speed (with normal extension) would still keep the
> Type 1, 30
> >degree focal point of 14.373"
> >in front of the 13B CG (IMHO)...........The 20B CG with normal
> constant speed
> >would have to be calculated
> >to see if it remained within the Type 1, 30 degree 14.373" focal
> >point..............The type 2,18 degree seems
> >to have been used only on a specific 0-320 model installed in the
> twin Comanche
> >(That does not keep your
> >Lancair from having this engine installed)..................
> >
> >   
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >
> > Interesting. I may very well be wrong but for some reason I had
> it in my head
> >[once it was jared by Bills mention of Type 2] that the Type 2's
> were usually
> >used for engines w/ constant speed [due to weight] and the type
> 1's were used
> >mainly for fixed pitch. [old wives tale?] I would think that due
> to our extra
> >weight out front on the nose a Type 2 would be more in order.
> Having said that,
> >I have no idea where the CofG on a 13B is located and how that
> relates to the
> >various focal points. In addition, how adding a PSRU on the nose
> would impact
> >the CofG [and or a electricl pitch prop etc].  I'll have to do
> some reading and
> >see what I can dig up.  Certainly a good place to start w/ as far
> as a ground up
> >design on the mounting housing.
> >
> >Lynn, re: Strength of the Connection.
> >I remember you stating some of those points a while back. I'm
> wondering if, in
> >our lower power state, these are as much a concern as they are in
> the racing
> >world? It would certainly be possible to add extra parts to the
> install [the
> >thickened bottom plate, or perhaps some form of a stiffener that
> locks the block
> >from torque related movement front to back  { all just thoughts
> flashing through
> >my brain, RHRN}. I've not heard comment about how Mistral
> addressed this [or if
> >it was a concern of theirs?].
> >Kelly, do you know of any additional connection points [dowels or
> pins etc] that
> >were needed for the instal of a Mistral housing? 
> >It certainly is not my first 'pick' to have a mounting housing
> which needs
> >modifications to a short block, to allow it to be installed.
> >
> >
> >Jarrett Johnson
> >www.innovention-tech.com
> > 
> >Jarrett and Bill,
> >       Here is the source of my "Dynafocal" mount info...............
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:37:25 PM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >
> >
> >Bill,
> >       My info says the Type 2 ,18 degree was introduced when O-
> 320's were put
> >in twin Comanches
> >with extra long constant speed prop extensions (for a more
> streamlined
> >cowl)............This then put
> >the engine CG further forward so to keep the Dynafocal mount
> "Focal" point
> >slightly ahead of the
> >engine CG the Dynafocal mount angle was reduced from 30 degrees
> to 18
> >degrees.........
> >
> >      The Dynafocal type 1 focal point is 14.323 inches from the
> >mounts..................The "Mistral" 13B
> >engine CG is 9.44 inches from the mount so should work well with
> the type 1, 30
> >degree Dynafocal
> >mount..............IMHO 
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >
> >
> >There is also a Type 2 Dynafocal that I think is in more common
> usage.  If I
> >recall the angle on it is 17 degrees.
> > 
> >Bill B
> > 
> >
> ________________________________
>
> >From:Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of
> >Kelly Troyer
> >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:57 PM
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> > 
> >Jarrett,
> > 
> >     I found the "Dynafocal" info................Was on my other
> computer
> >!!..................
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> > 
> > 
> >
> ________________________________
>
> >From:H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >The scanning should give in the tens of thousands [0.01"] or less
> depending on
> >what type of equipement used etc.   That in conjunction w/ bolt
> hold placement
> >that I already have [lots of collected data over the years] I
> should be able to
> >duplicate the basic geometry. From there it will become a new
> product in that we
> >want to make it something that works for everyone [or as many as
> possible] to
> >make it a viable unit. That info, mixed w/ knowing what the
> 'Standard' mount
> >geometry is should get us where we need to go.
> >Best regards
> >
> >Jarrett Johnson
> >www.innovention-tech.com
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
> >Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:03 am
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >> Jarrett,
> >>
> >>       I do not know exactly what dimensions the scanning give
> you
> >> such as bolt
> >> hole placement, etc.........I presumed
> >> that the angles of the mount ears needed for the "Dynafoal"
> mounts
> >> would be
> >> "Dead" on though..........
> >>
> >>
> >> Kelly Troyer
> >> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >> Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:49:43 AM
> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >>
> >>  Excellent, now I just need to get some Dynafocal dimensions
> [I've
> >> seen it on
> >> the web in the past, just gotta re-locate the dimensional
> >> 'standards']. That in
> >> conjunction w/ a few scans & the picture will start to really
> take
> >> shape!
> >>
> >> I love progress :)
> >> I can't say Thanks enough Kelly, w/out the help of yourself and
> >> others it would
> >> be a much steeper curve to get it up to speed.
> >>
> >> Jarrett Johnson
> >> www.innovention-tech.com
> >> --  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/  Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html