X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm14-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.162] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with SMTP id 4958734 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:27:32 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.162; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.103] by nm14.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2011 03:26:57 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.67] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2011 03:26:57 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2011 03:26:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 489869.35291.bm@omp1004.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 2817 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2011 03:26:57 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1303874817; bh=41RqLLrI6uOYjg2KV7bRcKtIFep12ua3munRBN+QpY8=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=dX19cp1OAPIR5ubKRglsndWyY0rrMj7oPjvFCnVJMjSKp1960OzhOL6Vt5J/GWk5WtuHL4apwbC2ipZqDTwGPxAuSQkYI50ht8s/5dMf/CQZEcphPfET3BrY0emumOa9cAkrCg6ZNp5fW2PRy0TPi4qZr1BBWbeHbbtnpRWFeOk= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=0/2Fxlrth9C5eUezfoT4dpH4TbK1ZnInYz5C79+27qrLrHuRIg/TIB+9da2cXl7fmB7bZ0KI3Fz+GAcqhnH7W0mO2TaipfXWAIs/HUqXa7Q/XdK3rdnzVOaYkDM8qRmrXFUCPbFbKFYIvC0YpeErlNRbqgkmuswmBpObSoN7VEU=; Message-ID: <233913.1948.qm@web83908.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: SATk73gVM1myDznPrqSDNCfLwWmj1ovaK0PYHmNgRf5HEJy JeKL2XoQOid7AP9IV0Nmm1zkfvA0HzTBBrD6EgQu3LHhOpeFshwJCGj0d6Hw t_Ijvssn1tE.YsWVWdCiX.vP_qjNQouZ0mB0f9oZD8mBX6jGjRPCS5UsNmSC hrDt8gPv_o9MF02XOXSSZAP.3fzVYCKi3Aj26FVCfUOByYRBb2OEgndVq79M X8J7U5WcHQBVNS9oy25Bo.CbI0mENavrWMKT3sO9ERGZBUGp42uPGgB.jbC6 W7kXM8trpGKknQB.kUXH1myyJ4JrqluQavSqpYq2tl0fHuL5J4fj.3hkXoEy F1AfHSDp72bKFPHh4 Received: from [208.114.42.152] by web83908.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:26:57 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.110.299900 References: Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Mcmaster-Carr Barry engine mount $6.50 To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-980053156-1303874817=:1948" --0-980053156-1303874817=:1948 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian,=0A=A0=A0=A0 Checked this part #=A0out...............Will not work=A0= as a=A0Dynafocal type 1 =0Amount unfortunately................=0A=A0=0AKell= y Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1= C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "bktrub@aol.com" =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, April 26, 2011 8:51:47 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Mcmaster-Ca= rr Barry engine mount $6.50=0A=0AHere is what I have from Mcmaster- Carr- p= urchased in May, 2001:=A0 part # =0A6309K35=A0 Description: Neoprene center= bolt-through mount, two piece, 0.532" hole =0Adia, 240 # max load.=A0=A0= =A0 $6.50 each.=0A=0ABrian Trubee=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----= =0AFrom: Kelly Troyer =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 6:11 pm=0ASubject: [Fly= Rotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A=0A=0ABrian,=0A=0A=A0=A0 Really wish th= ese would work for the Dynafocal mount !!......Is this part #=0Arepresentat= ive of what you are using ??=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =0A=0A64865K84 =0A=0Ah= ttp://www.mcmaster.com/#nonmetallic-vibration-damping-mounts/=3Dc1tn59=0A= =A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine= =0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO= 4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "bktrub@a= ol.com" =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, April 26, 2011 7:44:09 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] R= e: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A=0AMcmaster-carr has Barry mounts for around $7 = each. That's right, I'm not leaving =0Aout a decimal place. That's what I a= m using.=0A=0ABrian Trubee=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom:= Kelly Troyer =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 4:48 pm=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A=0A=0AJarrett,=0A=0A=A0=A0 Best price I have fo= und=A0thus far..............Aircraft Spruce part #08-3600 , =0A$268.95 (US)= for a complete =0A=0Aset of 4 and spacers..................=0A=0A=0Ahttp:/= /www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/mounts.html=0A=0Ahttp://www.aircraftspruce= .com/catalog/eppages/heavydutydynafocal.php=0A=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DE= LTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRA= L"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______= __________________________=0AFrom: H & J Johnson =0A= To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, Ap= ril 26, 2011 6:01:37 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A= =0A=0AHaha...=A0 first though through my brain was it prob would be easier,= but if the =0Amajority of kits now ship w/ Dynafocal and the expectation i= s that I want to =0Aproduce a bolt on replacement option. Then the Dynafoca= l units is where it all =0Aneeds to start. The Conical ones very well could= =A0use cheaper rubbers but the =0Apotential loss of interest due to the old= er mount style probably out-weighs the =0Abenifit? Also didn't someone come= up w/ a cheap solution for the isolation =0Arubbers on the Dynafocal units= [possibly on Pauls List?]?=A0 I've never priced =0Athem but if they are th= at steep then I'll just have to find a supplier and start =0Aselling my own= :). It wouldn't be the first rubber product I've created and=A0had =0Abuil= t specifically=A0for me.=A0[well my employer, but 'my' project]=0AWhere doe= s it end :)=A0 the short answer is probably never...=A0 :)=0AI can't thank = you guys enough for all the intel you've sent my way.=0A=0AJarrett Johnson = =0Awww.innovention-tech.com =0A=0A----- Original Message ----- From: Kelly = Troyer Date: Tuesday, =0AApril 26, 2011 4:32 pm Subject: [= FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake > Jarrett, =0A=0A> =A0=A0=A0 Charlie m= ay be on to something here about the "Conical" =0A> parallel =0A> mount....= ......gives you =0A> =0A> more to mull over.................<:) (just what = you need)=A0 =0A> =A0 =0A> Kelly Troyer =0A> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) = =0A> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/= Oil Manifold =0A> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> _____= ___________________________ =0A> From: Charlie England =0A> To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>= Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:06:54 PM =0A> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral= 'Like' Intake =0A> =0A> 2nd Kelly's opinion. the info I have said type 2 w= as for engines =0A> with *extended =0A> hub* constant speed prop (~2 1/2" b= eyond a normal constant speed), =0A> which moves =0A> the cg forward a lot.= Van's no longer even supplies type 2 mounts =0A> because they =0A> are so = rare. =0A> =0A> =0A> IMO, the only reason to do dynafocal at all is because= the mounts =0A> are so common. =0A> the old 'conical' style mount (4 paral= lel bolts) would be just =0A> fine for a rotary =0A> with its inherently sm= ooth operation. The reason Lyc did the =0A> dynafocal was an =0A> attempt t= o damp their flat 4's horrendous vibration pattern (not =0A> that =0A> effe= ctive...). The conical mount Lyc motors can be converted to =0A> dynafocal = by an =0A> engine shop, implying that the bolt circle is virtually identica= l. =0A> The downside =0A> to dynafocal is that the rubbers cost about a fac= tor of 10-15 more =0A> money than =0A> conical mount rubbers. Less than $30= for a set of conical; $300- =0A> $500 for =0A> dynafocal. =0A> =0A> =0A> I= still have available the dyna ring off my original RV motor =0A> mount, if= there's =0A> a scanning shop in Jackson MS. If you can find a shop, let me= know =0A> & I'll take =0A> it there for a scan. =0A> =0A> To address the c= oncern about attachment strength: with a new =0A> housing, it should =0A> b= e relatively simple to add a piece to grab the top of the middle =0A> iron = or even =0A> the bellhousing flange top bolts if you're really paranoid. I'= m no =0A> engineer, but =0A> I'd think that there is plenty of bolt & alumi= num area to take the =0A> shear loads; =0A> the only question in my mind wo= uld be the bolts at the top that =0A> will be in =0A> tension in the cast i= ron casting. I have a hard time believing =0A> that 6 gs could =0A> stretch= the 4 or 5 bolts across the top of the 'stack' enough to =0A> affect the = =0A> engine, at the relatively low power levels that will be used in =0A> a= /c. (I'm =0A> strictly talking about 2 rotor engines, not the 3+ rotor vers= ions.) =0A> =0A> Charlie =0A> =0A> On 4/26/2011 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote= : =0A> Jarrett, =0A> > =0A> >=A0=A0=A0=A0 The "Mistral" 13B engine (and the= ir 20B)=A0CG of 9.44 and =0A> 11.73=A0 inches =0A> >respectively=A0was=A0co= mplete with =0A> > =0A> >all accessories and=A0redrive (which is heavier th= an Tracy's=A0RD1X =0A> re-drives of=A044 =0A> >lbs)................The addi= tion =0A> >of a constant speed (with normal extension) would still keep the= =0A> Type 1, 30 =0A> >degree focal point of=A014.373" =0A> >in front of th= e 13B CG (IMHO)...........The 20B CG with normal =0A> constant speed =0A> >= would have to be calculated =0A> >to see if it remained within the Type 1, = 30 degree 14.373" focal =0A> >point..............The type 2,18 degree seems= =0A> >to have been used only on a specific 0-320 model installed in the = =0A> twin Comanche =0A> >(That does not keep your =0A> >Lancair=A0from havi= ng=A0this engine installed).................. =0A> > =0A> >=A0=A0=A0 =0A> >= Kelly Troyer =0A> >"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) =0A> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine= =0A> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A> >"TUR= BONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> ____________= ____________________ =0A> From: H & J Johnson =0A> = >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >Sent: Tu= e, April 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM =0A> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' = Intake =0A> > =0A> >=A0Interesting. I may very well be wrong but for some r= eason I had =0A> it in my head =0A> >[once it was jared by Bills mention of= Type 2] that the Type 2's =0A> were usually =0A> >used for engines w/ cons= tant speed [due to weight] and the type =0A> 1's were used =0A> >mainly for= fixed pitch. [old wives tale?]=A0I would think that due =0A> to our extra = =0A> >weight out front on the nose a Type 2 would be more in order. =0A> Ha= ving said that, =0A> >I have no idea where the CofG on a 13B is located and= how that =0A> relates to the =0A> >various focal points. In addition, how = adding a PSRU on the nose =0A> would impact =0A> >the CofG [and or a electr= icl pitch prop etc].=A0 I'll have to do =0A> some reading and =0A> >see wha= t I can dig up.=A0 Certainly a good place to start w/ as far =0A> as a grou= nd up =0A> >design on the mounting housing. =0A> > =0A> >Lynn, re: Strength= of the Connection. =0A> >I remember you stating some of those points a whi= le back. I'm =0A> wondering if, in =0A> >our lower power state, these are a= s much a concern as they are in =0A> the racing =0A> >world? It would certa= inly be possible to add extra parts to the =0A> install [the =0A> >thickene= d bottom plate, or perhaps some form of a stiffener that =0A> locks the blo= ck =0A> >from torque related movement front to back=A0 { all just thoughts = =0A> flashing through =0A> >my brain, RHRN}. I've not heard comment about h= ow Mistral =0A> addressed this [or if =0A> >it was a concern of theirs?]. = =0A> >Kelly, do you know of any additional connection points [dowels or =0A= > pins etc] that =0A> >were needed for the instal of a Mistral housing?=A0 = =0A> >It certainly is not my first 'pick' to have a mounting housing =0A> w= hich needs =0A> >modifications to a short block, to allow it to be installe= d. =0A> > =0A> > =0A> >Jarrett Johnson =0A> >www.innovention-tech.com =0A> = >=A0 =0A> >Jarrett and Bill, =0A> >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Here is the source of= my "Dynafocal" mount info............... =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Kelly Troyer =0A>= >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually) =0A> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> >"RWS"_RD1C/= EC2/EM2 =0A> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 T= urbo =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> ______________________________= __ =0A> From: Kelly Troyer =0A> >To: Rotary motors in airc= raft =0A> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:37:25= PM =0A> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> > =0A> > =0A>= >Bill, =0A> >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0My info says the Type 2 ,18 degree was int= roduced when O- =0A> 320's were put =0A> >in twin Comanches =0A> >with extr= a long constant speed prop extensions (for a more =0A> streamlined =0A> >co= wl)............This then put =0A> >the engine CG further forward so to keep= the Dynafocal mount =0A> "Focal" point =0A> >slightly ahead of the =0A> >e= ngine CG the Dynafocal mount angle was reduced from 30 degrees =0A> to 18 = =0A> >degrees......... =0A> > =0A> >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The Dynafocal type 1 fo= cal point is 14.323 inches from the =0A> >mounts..................The "Mist= ral" 13B =0A> >engine CG is 9.44 inches from the mount so should work well = with =0A> the type 1, 30 =0A> >degree=A0Dynafocal =0A> >mount..............= IMHO=A0 =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Kelly Troyer =0A> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually) =0A= > >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/= Oil Manifold =0A> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > = =0A> > =0A> ________________________________ =0A> From: Bill Bradburry =0A> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM =0A> >Subject: [F= lyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> > =0A> > =0A> >There is also a Typ= e 2 Dynafocal that I think is in more common =0A> usage.=A0 If I =0A> >reca= ll the angle on it is 17 degrees. =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Bill B =0A> >=A0 =0A> > = =0A> ________________________________ =0A> =0A> >From:Rotary motors in airc= raft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On =0A> Behalf Of =0A> >Kelly Troyer =0A= > >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:57 PM =0A> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft= =0A> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Jarre= tt, =0A> >=A0 =0A> >=A0=A0=A0=A0 I found the "Dynafocal" info..............= ..Was on my other =0A> computer =0A> >!!.................. =0A> >=A0 =0A> >= Kelly Troyer =0A> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually) =0A> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine = =0A> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A> >"TURB= ONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> >=A0 =0A> >=A0 =0A> > =0A> _____________________= ___________ =0A> =0A> >From:H & J Johnson =0A> >To:= Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >Sent: Mon, A= pril 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM =0A> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Int= ake =0A> >The scanning should give in the tens of thousands [0.01"] or less= =0A> depending on =0A> >what type of equipement used etc.=A0=A0 That in co= njunction w/ bolt =0A> hold placement =0A> >that I already have [lots of co= llected data over the years] I =0A> should be able to =0A> >duplicate the b= asic geometry. From there it will become a new =0A> product in that we =0A>= >want to make it=A0something that=A0works for everyone [or as many as =0A>= possible] to =0A> >make it a viable unit. That info, mixed w/ knowing what= the =0A> 'Standard' mount =0A> >geometry is should get us where we need to= go. =0A> >Best regards =0A> > =0A> >Jarrett Johnson =0A> >www.innovention-= tech.com =0A> >----- Original Message ----- =0A> >From: Kelly Troyer =0A> >Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:03 am =0A> >Subject: [FlyR= otary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> >> Jarrett, =0A> >> =0A> >> =A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 I do not know exactly=A0what dimensions the scanning give =0A> you = =0A> >> such as bolt =0A> >> hole placement, etc.........I presumed =0A> >>= that the angles of the mount ears needed for the "Dynafoal" =0A> mounts = =0A> >> would be =0A> >> "Dead" on though.......... =0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >>= Kelly Troyer =0A> >> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) =0A> >> "13B ROTARY"_ E= ngine =0A> >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold = =0A> >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >> = ________________________________ =0A> >> From: H & J Johnson =0A> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >> Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:49:43 AM =0A> >> Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> >> =0A> >> =A0Excellent, now I just need = to get some Dynafocal dimensions =0A> [I've =0A> >> seen it on =0A> >> the = web in the past, just gotta re-locate the dimensional =0A> >> 'standards'].= That in =0A> >> conjunction w/ a few scans & the picture will start to rea= lly =0A> take =0A> >> shape! =0A> >> =0A> >> I love progress :) =0A> >> I c= an't say Thanks enough Kelly, w/out the help of yourself and =0A> >> others= it would =0A> >> be a much steeper curve to get it up to speed. =0A> >> = =0A> >> Jarrett Johnson =0A> >> www.innovention-tech.com =0A> >> --=A0 Home= page:=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=A0 Archive and UnSub: =0A>http://mail.la= ncaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --0-980053156-1303874817=:1948 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Brian,
=0A
    Checked this= part # out...............Will not work as a Dynafocal type = 1 mount unfortunately................
 
=0A

Kelly Troyer
= "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)<= /FONT>

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MIS= TRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A
= =0AFrom: "bktrub@aol.com" &= lt;bktrub@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 8:51:47 P= M
Subject: [FlyRotary] M= cmaster-Carr Barry engine mount $6.50

=0A
Here is what I have from Mcmaster- Carr- purchas= ed in May, 2001:  part # 6309K35  Description: Neoprene center bo= lt-through mount, two piece, 0.532" hole dia, 240 # max load.  &n= bsp; $6.50 each.
=0A
 
=0A
Brian Trubee

=0A


=0A
-----Original Message-----=
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 6:11 pm<= BR>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

=0A
=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A<= DIV>
=0A
Brian,
=0A
 
=0A
   Real= ly wish these would work for the Dynafocal mount !!......Is this part #=0A
representative of what you are using ??    &n= bsp;   
=0A
 
=0A
=0A=0A=0A= =0A
64865K84
=0A
 
=0A
http://www.mcmaster.com/#non= metallic-vibration-damping-mounts/=3Dc1tn59
 
=0A
Kelly Tr= oyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Even= tually)
=0A
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2= /EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
=0A
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 = Turbo
=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: = "bktrub@aol.com" <= bktrub@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 7:44:09 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' I= ntake

=0A
Mcmaster-carr has Barry mounts for a= round $7 each. That's right, I'm not leaving out a decimal place. That's wh= at I am using.
=0A
 
=0A
Brian Trubee

=
=0A


=0A
-----Original Message= -----
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net&= gt;
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2= 011 4:48 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Jarrett,
=0A
&nbs= p;
=0A
   Best price I have found thus far.........= .....Aircraft Spruce part #08-3600 , $268.95 (US) for a complete
=0A<= DIV>set of 4 and spacers..................
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http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/mounts.html=0A
 
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http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages= /heavydutydynafocal.php
 
=0A
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
=0A
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Ba= ckplate/Oil Manifold
=0A
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
=0A
<= BR>
=0A

=0A
=0A
= =0AFrom: H & J Johnson = <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
= To: Rotary motors in aircra= ft <flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net>
Sent: = Tue, April 26, 2011 6:01:37 PM
Subj= ect: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

=0AHaha...  first though through my brain was it prob would be easier, b= ut if the majority of kits now ship w/ Dynafocal and the expectation is tha= t I want to produce a bolt on replacement option. Then the Dynafocal units = is where it all needs to start. The Conical ones very well could use c= heaper rubbers but the potential loss of interest due to the older mount st= yle probably out-weighs the benifit? Also didn't someone come up w/ a cheap= solution for the isolation rubbers on the Dynafocal units [possibly on Pau= ls List?]?  I've never priced them but if they are that steep then I'l= l just have to find a supplier and start selling my own :). It wouldn't be = the first rubber product I've created and had built specifically = for me. [well my employer, but 'my' project]
=0A
Where does i= t end :)  the short answer is probably never...  :)
=0A
= I can't thank you guys enough for all the intel you've sent my way.

= Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com

=0A
----- Original Message ----- =0A
From: Kelly Tro= yer <keltro@att.net> =0A
Dat= e: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:32 pm =0A
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A
=0A
> Jarrett, <= BR>>     Charlie may be on to something here about the "C= onical"
> parallel
> mount..........gives you
>
&g= t; more to mull over.................<:) (just what you need) 
= >  
> Kelly Troyer
> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_= Backplate/Oil Manifold
> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
>
>= ;
>
>
> ________________________________
> From= : Charlie England <ceengland@b= ellsouth.net>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=
> Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:06:54 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
>
> 2nd Kelly= 's opinion. the info I have said type 2 was for engines
> with *exte= nded
> hub* constant speed prop (~2 1/2" beyond a normal constant sp= eed),
> which moves
> the cg forward a lot. Van's no longer e= ven supplies type 2 mounts
> because they
> are so rare.
= >
>
> IMO, the only reason to do dynafocal at all is becau= se the mounts
> are so common.
> the old 'conical' style moun= t (4 parallel bolts) would be just
> fine for a rotary
> with= its inherently smooth operation. The reason Lyc did the
> dynafocal= was an
> attempt to damp their flat 4's horrendous vibration patter= n (not
> that
> effective...). The conical mount Lyc motors c= an be converted to
> dynafocal by an
> engine shop, implying = that the bolt circle is virtually identical.
> The downside
> to dynafocal is that the rubbers cost about a factor of 10-15 mor= e
> money than
> conical mount rubbers. Less than $30 for a s= et of conical; $300-
> $500 for
> dynafocal.
>
>= ;
> I still have available the dyna ring off my original RV motor > mount, if there's
> a scanning shop in Jackson MS. If you can= find a shop, let me know
> & I'll take
> it there for a = scan.
>
> To address the concern about attachment strength: w= ith a new
> housing, it should
> be relatively simple to add = a piece to grab the top of the middle
> iron or even
> the be= llhousing flange top bolts if you're really paranoid. I'm no
> engin= eer, but
> I'd think that there is plenty of bolt & aluminum are= a to take the
> shear loads;
> the only question in my mind w= ould be the bolts at the top that
> will be in
> tension in the cast iron casting. I have a hard time believing
> th= at 6 gs could
> stretch the 4 or 5 bolts across the top of the 'stac= k' enough to
> affect the
> engine, at the relatively low pow= er levels that will be used in
> a/c. (I'm
> strictly talking= about 2 rotor engines, not the 3+ rotor versions.)
>
> Charl= ie
>
> On 4/26/2011 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
> Jar= rett,
> >
> >     The "Mistral" 13B= engine (and their 20B) CG of 9.44 and
> 11.73  inches > >respectively was complete with
> >
> &= gt;all accessories and redrive (which is heavier than Tracy's RD1= X
> re-drives of 44
> >lbs)................The additi= on
> >of a constant speed (with normal extension) would still kee= p the
> Type 1, 30
> >degree focal point of 14.373"
> >in front of the 13B CG (IMHO)...........The 2= 0B CG with normal
> constant speed
> >would have to be cal= culated
> >to see if it remained within the Type 1, 30 degree 14.= 373" focal
> >point..............The type 2,18 degree seems
&= gt; >to have been used only on a specific 0-320 model installed in the <= BR>> twin Comanche
> >(That does not keep your
> >La= ncair from having this engine installed)..................
&g= t; >
> >   
> >Kelly Troyer
> = >"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
>= ; >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
= > >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> &g= t;
> >
> >
> ________________________________ > From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> = >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Tue, Ap= ril 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like= ' Intake
> >
> > Interesting. I may very well be w= rong but for some reason I had
> it in my head
> >[once it= was jared by Bills mention of Type 2] that the Type 2's
> were usua= lly
> >used for engines w/ constant speed [due to weight] and the= type
> 1's were used
> >mainly for fixed pitch. [old wive= s tale?] I would think that due
> to our extra
> >wei= ght out front on the nose a Type 2 would be more in order.
> Having = said that,
> >I have no idea where the CofG on a 13B is located and h= ow that
> relates to the
> >various focal points. In addit= ion, how adding a PSRU on the nose
> would impact
> >the C= ofG [and or a electricl pitch prop etc].  I'll have to do
> som= e reading and
> >see what I can dig up.  Certainly a good pl= ace to start w/ as far
> as a ground up
> >design on the m= ounting housing.
> >
> >Lynn, re: Strength of the Conne= ction.
> >I remember you stating some of those points a while bac= k. I'm
> wondering if, in
> >our lower power state, these = are as much a concern as they are in
> the racing
> >world= ? It would certainly be possible to add extra parts to the
> install= [the
> >thickened bottom plate, or perhaps some form of a stiffe= ner that
> locks the block
> >from torque related movement front to back  { all just thoughts
> flashing through=
> >my brain, RHRN}. I've not heard comment about how Mistral > addressed this [or if
> >it was a concern of theirs?].
= > >Kelly, do you know of any additional connection points [dowels or =
> pins etc] that
> >were needed for the instal of a Mistra= l housing? 
> >It certainly is not my first 'pick' to have a= mounting housing
> which needs
> >modifications to a shor= t block, to allow it to be installed.
> >
> >
> = >Jarrett Johnson
> >www.innovention-tech.com
> >= ; 
> >Jarrett and Bill,
> >    = ;   Here is the source of my "Dynafocal" mount info..............= .
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C= /EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBON= ETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >=
> >
> ________________________________
> From: Kel= ly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
> >T= o: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, April 2= 5, 2011 10:37:25 PM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' In= take
> >
> >
> >Bill,
> > &nbs= p;     My info says the Type 2 ,18 degree was introduce= d when O-
> 320's were put
> >in twin Comanches
> &= gt;with extra long constant speed prop extensions (for a more
> streamlined=
> >cowl)............This then put
> >the engine CG fur= ther forward so to keep the Dynafocal mount
> "Focal" point
>= >slightly ahead of the
> >engine CG the Dynafocal mount angle= was reduced from 30 degrees
> to 18
> >degrees......... <= BR>> >
> >      The Dynafocal type= 1 focal point is 14.323 inches from the
> >mounts...............= ...The "Mistral" 13B
> >engine CG is 9.44 inches from the mount s= o should work well with
> the type 1, 30
> >degree Dy= nafocal
> >mount..............IMHO 
> > 
= > >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> &g= t;"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRA= L"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
= > ________________________________
> From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> <= BR>> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent:= Mon, April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mist= ral 'Like' Intake
> >
> >
> >There is also a = Type 2 Dynafocal that I think is in more common
> usage.  If I =
> >recall the angle on it is 17 degrees.
> > 
= > >Bill B
> > 
> >
> ________________= ________________
>
> >From:Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] On
> Behalf Of
> >Kelly Troyer
> >Sent: Mo= nday, April 25, 2011 4:57 PM
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft > >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> > = ;
> >Jarrett,
> > 
> >   =   I found the "Dynafocal" info................Was on my other
>= computer
> >!!..................
> > 
> &g= t;Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B = ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Back= plate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >&nb= sp;
> > 
> >
> ____________________________= ____
>
> >From:H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> = >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, Ap= ril 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Lik= e' Intake
> >The scanning should give in the tens of thousands [0= .01"] or less
> depending on
> >what type of equipement us= ed etc.   That in conjunction w/ bolt
> hold placement > >that I already have [lots of collected data over the years] I > should be able to
> >duplicate the basic geometry. From the= re it will become a new
> product in that we
> >want to ma= ke it something that works for everyone [or as many as
> p= ossible] to
> >make it a viable unit. That info, mixed w/ knowing what th= e
> 'Standard' mount
> >geometry is should get us where we= need to go.
> >Best regards
> >
> >Jarrett J= ohnson
> >www.innovention-tech.com
> >----- Origin= al Message -----
> >From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
> >Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:03 am=
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >&= gt; Jarrett,
> >>
> >>     &n= bsp; I do not know exactly what dimensions the scanning give
> = you
> >> such as bolt
> >> hole placement, etc...= ......I presumed
> >> that the angles of the mount ears needed= for the "Dynafoal"
> mounts
> >> would be
> >>= ; "Dead" on though..........
> >>
> >>
> &= gt;> Kelly Troyer
> >> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
&g= t; >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&= gt; >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >> "TURBONETIC= S"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >>
> >>
> >>
&= gt; >>
> >> ________________________________
> &g= t;> From: H & J Johnson <hj= johnson@sasktel.net>
> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft= <flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net>
> >> Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:49:43 AM <= BR>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >> =
> >>  Excellent, now I just need to get some Dynafocal di= mensions
> [I've
> >> seen it on
> >> the = web in the past, just gotta re-locate the dimensional
> >> 'st= andards']. That in
> >> conjunction w/ a few scans & the p= icture will start to really
> take
> >> shape!
>= >>
> >> I love progress :)
> >> I can't sa= y Thanks enough Kelly, w/out the help of yourself and
> >> oth= ers it would
> >> be a much steeper curve to get it up to spee= d.
> >>
> >> Jarrett Johnson
> >> w= ww.innovention-tech.com
> >> --  Homepage:  http= ://www.flyrotary.com/  Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
<=
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