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From: CFO Digest <digest@cardinalflyers.com>
To: "jcollins@snet.net" <jcollins@snet.net>
Sent: Fri, October 22, 2010 6:04:19 PM
Subject: CFO 10-21-2010, #3895
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http://www.cardinalflyers.com/m.php?E=jcollins@snet.netSubject: CFO 10-21-2010, #3895
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Welcome to Cardinal Flyers Online
The world's largest Cardinal organization!
To send email to this list mailto:
digest@cardinalflyers.comTo **join** Cardinal Flyers Online - go to this url:
http://www.cardinalflyers.com/join.htm--------------------------------------------------------
CFO Fly-ins: Details at end of digest.
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Table of Contents:
GRASS RUNWAY LENGTH
Carburetor Airbox Assembly
Amazing Digest
iPad
CFO Member's Help Page: Juho Kuikko
CFO New Member
Sparkplugs
Change Engine Dash Numbers
AD oil for Turbo Engine Break-in
calendar time since overhaul
Plastic Interiors - replacement parts for the UK
Misc & Various messages:
UFO: You are
invited
--------------------------------------------------------
From: Mark Arness <
marness@pol.net>
Subject: GRASS RUNWAY LENGTH
>> What length would you fly in and out of on a regular basis in a 200
HP RG, assuming a smooth cut, level grass runway with clean approach and
departure, 1000 ft elevation?
>> [Insufficient data! Fully loaded or you and half fuel? OAT of 60 F
or 100 F? Wind? Grass length (smooth can still be pretty long!) 2000'
runways don't require as much thought; Any length is probably OK as long
as you impose the right conditions on your operations. Paul]
Well, I wouldn't say 'any length is OK...' I do a lot of flying into
unimproved strips out West and high-altitude fields like Johnson Creek
@5k' MSL. You have to give yourself a Wide Margin for Error in operating
out of these
kind of fields! Getting off from a soft field on a hot
summer day with all your fishing, hunting and camping gear and a couple
of hung-over buddies in the back rack could well be a one-way ticket to
ride to your point of impact.
[Seems like you skipped over the “as long as you impose the right
conditions” part of that statement, eh? Paul]
Search this Digest for a report of departure crash back East last year
on a Cardinal operating out of a short field...on most days he probably
could have gotten out fine but on that day he was a hair too slow,
rotated a yard too long and clipped the tops off the trees (there are
ALWAYS trees at the departure end of these soft/short fields!). He had
no margin for error... afterwards he reported that he felt a power loss
in the ground roll and saw RPM fall off... that's a Red Light and should
trigger an immediate “Abort Takeoff Checklist.”
I
personally am not at all comfortable in any soft field < 3000' because
you need, according to book 15%, but in my experience, up to 30% more
ground roll, and if your field is at any kind of elevation just add 50%
to your ground roll...and even more if your density altitude is over 6k'
MSL you ought to think hard about how you're getting out.
My ground roll goes up to 1600' at 8k' DA on a grass strip... nearly
double book value. I've seen guys take off from Johnson Creek when its
95 degrees and the DA is 9K' MSL. Two years ago I met a fellow in a
Bonanza who went around the field asking, "Do you think I can make it
out Okay now?”
[Bonanza pilots can be like that.]
At 3pm when it was 102 F, every pilot on the field told that guy “NO
way, Man! Don't chance it!" So of course an hour later, he jumped in the
Beech and put the hammer down...I watched him whip needles off the tree
tops on his way out, it was damn scary... I thought sure he would plant
it in the Creek but he got it up, and apparently was so enthusiastic
about his 'superior piloting skills' that the next year he came back and
used the same poor judgment, resulting in total loss of the Beech in
that icy cold very rocky creek... you don't want to go there.
"The mark of a superior pilot is use of their good judgment in
preventing situations requiring the emergency use of their superb
piloting skills."
Johnson creek is 3300' long and it's barely enough for a loaded
Cardinal. My ground roll is typically half the field length! If I don't
achieve rotation by the middle marker stone, I pull the power and stomp
on brakes, it's just barely long enough to abort a takeoff. I have
gotten it stopped right at the edge of the runway dropoff where the
gravelly slide falls into the rocky creek bed. You can 'feel' when
something is off, if you're not developing best power you just 'know' it
and you can't just 'hope it gets up ok,' you must elect to abort before
passing the point of commitment. If your field is too short, the point
at which you're committed is very likely the departure end of your soft,
short runway.
Proper leaning is critical in getting best power (NOT full power... you
never get that at 5K' MSL!), if you're off a hair or the engine oil is
not warm enough, it will hesitate and ditch you. No margin for error...
I also fly into sea level short strips, there's a lovely beach park
campground at Manzanita Bay, OR which is just 2200' long and it's enough
to get out safely because it's sea level and paved, there are no trees
at the south departure end and you can take off over water using ground
effect to accelerate. So yes, I for once agree that safe length
absolutely depends on
conditions. A long wordy answer, maybe Paul's was
better; "It depends." Lol...
Be careful...be a superior pilot...get home safe!
Mark Arness N2637V
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From: Jeff & Ginger Champion <
mason31@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Carburetor Airbox Assembly
Paul, Keith, and fellow owners,
My 1975 Cardinal N35278 is getting its annual. Most everything is OK.
However, the "carburetor airbox assembly" needs some serious rebuilding
or replacement.
Any and all suggestions on what we can do will be appreciated. The shop
doing the annual has looked for used airboxes for Cardinals with no luck
so far. The present airbox has already been rebuilt many times and is
just getting worn out.
Thanks for any help. Jeff Champion
[Jeff, we've shared in
past digests the names of folks who rebuild
airboxes. Remember, as long as they use one rivet from the original,
it's still a rebuild, not an owner manufactured part. Of course, new
ones are available from Cessna sources, either in stock or with given
wait times. I'm not aware of a third party source. Keep in mind there
are at least three different designs, not necessarily interchangeable.
Paul]
--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gayle Daisy" <
synchronizedxf690@ripcurl-europe.com>
Subject: Amazing Digest
Hello Digest,
What's going on?
I just read about you on the web; is it possible we could get to know
more about each other? About me if you want to know, I just like honest
people and I am a very loving
girl
Please mail me so I can send you my pictures. I hope you like them,
please reply me back at
susannechorltoniyhs@hotmail.com[So nice to hear from enthusiastic Digest readers... I think? Paul]
--------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Schmidt <
mdinos@aol.com>
Subject: iPad
I have now flown two long cross country flights with my iPad with
Foreflight charts/plates. I flew round trip Orlando - Detroit (15 hours)
and Orlando -Wichita (16 hours). I am a huge fan of both products! The
best part was not having to manage a cockpit full of charts and plates,
just a perfect sized iPad on my lap or co-pilot seat.
The 3g version iPad has GPS, allowing Foreflight charts to show your
position on Sectionals and IFR High and Low charts, but not approach
plates.
[Yet!]
Using iPad's pinch feature, I could easily zoom in to full size chart or
zoom out to full US, and any size in between. I could also move the
screen ahead to view my planned route, then tap the centering icon and
the chart would center on my current position. The approach plates are
displayed full size at smallest, but allow you to zoom in further. The
AFD allows you to find airport info & services quickly and easily.
I have the microfiber iPad case, and it seems to hold firmly on any
cloth surface, even in turbulence. Most of the time I kept it on one leg
with my lapboard on the other.
The only bits of criticism I have include:
- the screen has quite a bit of glare in bright sunlight
- at full dim, the screen is a little too bright for night operations
- most 12v outlet USB chargers won't charge
the iPad, it requires a high
power USB charger
At medium brightness, which is fine for daylight operations, the battery
lasts over 8 hours. On my flight to Detroit, I discovered my phone USB
charger wouldn't charge it, so after the battery went below 50%, I only
turned it on occasionally to make sure I didn't run it completely down.
[I've been told it will charge, but only if turned off. I haven’t
verified that.]
I have since found a 12 volt USB charger at Target that is specifically
designed for the iPad. With the 12v charger, I no longer have to worry
about the battery on long cross country flights.
[I believe Apple has one two. I had an aftermarket iPhone charger that
caught on fire in my car; that's a bad thing.]
I originally thought I would try several iPad chart apps, but am so
satisfied with Foreflight, I have no desire to purchase others to
compare their
features. I'm sure I'll look at others at Sun ‘n Fun next
year, to see how they compare, but won't purchase any unless they
demonstrate features beyond what I now have with Foreflight.
I paid $75/yr for all US IFR, VFR, and approach charts, and simply
download updates every 28 days.
[That seems to be a launch at bedtime, let it run several hours process,
eh?]
I can select how much or little I want to download, and it takes less
than 1 hour via my home WiFi.
[Ah! The entire US took several hours on my WiFi.]
I don't use the AT&T 3G service, but for as little as $15/mo with no
long term contracts, it would be easy for most people to justify. You
can activate and deactivate the service monthly, right from the iPad.
I've never used Apple products before, and am amazed with the iPad as an
EFB. It doesn't completely replace my laptop PC, but has replaced it for
most
email and Internet surfing.
Michael Schmidt KORL N52152 '77 177RG Sent from my iPad
--------------------------------------------------------
From: (CFO Web Site)
Subject: CFO Member's Help Page: Juho Kuikko
Juho Kuikko from Tampere, Finland has added an entry to the CFO Members
Helping Members Page.
To see this entry or add your own entry, go to
http://www.cardinalflyers.com/x/mhm.htm[Tervetuloa, which as we all know, means welcome, in Finnish.]
--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steklenski, Phil" <
psteklenski@woodgrain.com>
Subject: CFO New Member
Paul,
Thanks for the note. I am based at KONO in Ontario, Oregon. Hopefully,
most of my Cardinal aviating is in front of me. I
flew a 1976 FG
Cardinal in Minnesota as part of a club. Since moving out west 6 years
ago, most of my flying is low and slow. I am part of a small group that
owns a Hatz (plans built biplane). Lots of fun to fly and great for
stress relief, but difficult for going very far or fast.
Also, the pain/pleasure threshold is about 55 degrees which limits
flying for about half of the year here.
The company I work for has a P210 that I am in the process of getting
checked out in. I currently have about 30 hours and need 50 for
insurance. It is a great way to travel for work in the west. For
personal flying, I am starting to come to the conclusion that a 177 RG
is a great fit for me. A nice mix of economy, speed, and capability. I
am still in the research phase, but hope to buy one in the next 3 or 4
months. The CFO organization has really tipped the scales to the
Cardinal for me. It is a fabulous
resource. It is very impressive what
you have helped build.
If you have any advice for a potential RG buyer, beyond what is on the
website, please drop me a note or give me a call. Thanks again for the CFO!
Phil Steklenski 208-514-9461
--------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul McBride
AskPaul@GeneralAviationNews.comSubject: Sparkplugs
Ask Paul: Are these spark plugs approved for my plane?
Q: Could you please help my pretty blonde wife and myself with our spark
plug problem? We are desperate! Our mechanic is going to put the new
fine wire plugs we just bought into our 1976 Cessna Cardinal RG, but we
have conflicting information on the proper plug.
We bought some SR83P plugs from a dealer at Sun 'n Fun, who assured us
that the plugs were the same as the
Champion fine wire plugs that fit
our Lycoming IO-360-A1B6 engine, and that they cross-referenced just fine.
*JIMMY & SANDY HONEYCUTT*
A: After doing some research of Lycoming Service Instruction 1042Y dated
Sept. 1, 2009, which covers all "Approved Spark Plugs" for all Lycoming
engines, I was afraid you may have a problem because there is no SR83P
listed. I had a strange feeling about this, so I did some further
checking with an old friend from the industry, Frank Gurko, who spent
nearly a lifetime with Champion Spark Plug Co., then started his own
company, PlugGuy.com , after retiring. He confirmed the SR83P spark
plugs you bought are approved for your IO-360-A1B6 in your Cessna
Cardinal RG and will work fine to replace your present REM38S plugs.
It would appear that there was an oversight by Lycoming during its last
revision to SI 1042Y from earlier versions. As a matter of fact, the
SR83P was shown as approved for your engine in SI 1042X, which I believe
was dated in 2002. I discussed this with Lycoming and they will address
this oversight when SI 1042 is next revised. So Jimmy, it looks like
you're good to go with the SR83P spark plugs for your engine.
I really appreciate you sending in your question because it reminded me
of something I've been meaning to address. I'd like to make certain all
readers understand that the outcome for Jimmy could have been much
different had these spark plugs been the incorrect type for his engine.
If incorrect plugs had been installed, there is the possibility that
several nasty things could have happened and none you'd like very much.
As we all know, fine wire spark plugs are very expensive, but when you
put your money down and later learn they are not approved for your
engine, it really gives you a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach,
not to mention a dent in the pocketbook.
I'd like everyone to do one simple thing that may save you some money in
the future --- and, besides, it's just a commonsense thing to do if you
are an aircraft owner. Before you do anything else, sit down and make a
short list that you can carry in your wallet with information about your
aircraft. Most important would be the specific engine model and its
serial number. You should also list the spark plug part number currently
installed and the oil filter part number. These are probably the two
most likely items you may be tempted to buy when attending events such
as AirVenture and Sun 'n Fun, where quite often various vendors will
offer "show specials" at attractive prices.
If you are not armed with the basic information and "you think" you're
buying the correct part number and find out once you return home that
was not the case, then you've got the
hassle of either returning them to
the vendor and possibly paying a restocking charge, in addition to
shipping costs, or trying to find someone to sell them to. So, ask
yourself, was the "show special" price really worth it? If you've got
your list, you may avoid this type of situation and come home having
saved a few bucks.
I hope everyone would consider making a list, so spread the word when
you're sitting around "hangar flying" or at your EAA Chapter meeting, or
just having coffee with other flyers. Maybe someday someone will be glad
they made their list, especially when it saves them from spending money
on an incorrect part.
--------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul McBride
Subject: Change Engine Dash Numbers
Is it possible to convert my engine?
Q: I have a Lycoming O-360-A1F6D that was originally installed in a
Cessna Cardinal. This engine has
since been used in an Van's RV-6 and I
will be installing it into a Van's RV-8. It does not have a magneto with
it as the previous owner used electronic ignition. I have not settled on
an ignition source but do not want to go back to the Bendix D4LN-2021
dual mag.
I recently noted in a General Aviation News article that Teledyne (TCM),
now the owner of the Bendix mags, has stopped support for the dual mag.
Is it possible to remove the "D" on this engine configuration by
changing accessory housing and gears? Maybe it's possible but not
economical?
DAVE PARADIS, Hubbard, Ore.
A: I really wish you had asked me a different question because I'm
afraid my answer to this one is not going to make you a happy camper.
Unfortunately, the cost to convert an O-360-A1F6D to an O-360-A1F6 would
just be unreal in the field.
[Paul is being a bit too Lycoming-centric here. He's assuming the
removed D engine parts have no value. But of course, several shops do
accomplish this change in the field, and it's even less expensive,
historically, than Lycoming's upcharge. Mattituck is one such shop,
ironically, perhaps, owned by Lycoming's competitor, Continental. Since
the removed D engine parts have value as spares, the field swap is not
terribly onerous. Paul]
Just for starters, the crankcase, the crankshaft and counterweight
assemblies, in addition to the accessory housing, are all different from
one model to the other. I've probably already ruined your day just by
telling you this much, but let's see if I can offer a way out for you.
There is an option offered by the Lycoming factory that may interest you
and move you away from the dual magneto situation. The factory offers an
exchange O-360-A1F6 (using two individual magnetos). It will normally
accept an
O-360-A1F6D in exchange for the aforementioned model with some
pricing variances. As an example, the list price of a factory overhauled
O-360-A1F6D versus that of an O-360-A1F6 is roughly about $2,500 higher.
[I pulled the $300 over factory invoice prices from
www.factoryengines.com below; not sure I got the exact correct ENPL
number for the Cardinal (there are variants of even the O360A1F6, and
you want the Cardinal specific one), but this is illustrative.
Interestingly, I thought, Factory Engines offers 7.99% financing with a
10 year amortization. Should be 12 years based on Lycoming's calendar
time between overhauls, eh? :-) Paul]
OVERHAULED REBUILT
O-360-A1F6D Lycoming
$22,505 $25,505
O-360-A1F6 Lycoming
$20,661 $23,661
(Financed$251/Mo.$287/Mo)
There is a $3,500 charge anytime you exchange unlike models (which you
would be
doing).
[In my experience, this upcharge amount is negotiable. It depends on
how hungry Lycoming is for the business at any given time.]
If you do the math, you'll see that you can exchange your A1F6D model
for what you really want for somewhere around $1,000, which I feel is a
pretty good deal. I guess I can make that statement safely since it's
not my money being spent!
Realistically, I don't think you could have your engine converted in the
field for this kind of money considering the major components that would
have to be changed to complete the conversion. And don't forget, the
factory engine also comes with all brand new cylinder assemblies and a
great warranty, among other things that you may not get elsewhere.
Good luck.
--------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul McBride
Subject: AD oil for Turbo Engine Break-in
Keep in mind that
all turbocharged Lycoming engines must be broken-in on
ashless dispersant oil only.
[Hi Paul, I've seen that in the Lycoming literature... but why is it true?
My engine overhaul shop, Central Cylinder in Omaha NE, insists, in
writing, that for their warranty to be valid, I must break my turbo'd
IO360 in on mineral oil.
I can certainly understand that given the intracylinder pressure
developed in the turbo engine, a pure mineral oil isn't required, since
the pressures are going to sufficiently pressure the rings to break
through most any lubricant layer. Is there that much concern on turbo
system deposits from just a few hours of straight oil operation? Paul]
--------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul McBride
Subject: calendar time since overhaul
Q: I am considering buying a plane with a Lycoming factory rebuilt
engine. TSOH is 50 hours. The
problem is the engine was installed five
years ago with a new turbo and the owner has not flown it much since,
although it has flown a few hours recently.
There is a lot of chatter about unflown engines rusting inside and not
making it to TBO. I don't need to make it to TBO, but I don't want it to
go south within the first year or two after purchase. How much of this
chatter is exaggerated? Is an engine that sat like that such a huge
problem that it should be avoided? Is it possible that a low-time
factory rebuilt can be rendered useless that easily?
R. GASTON
A: Here we go with one of those deals that look good up front, but may
not turn out so good in the end. I admire you for being sharp enough to
ask questions before taking the leap, but just in case you already put
your money on the table, let's look at a few things that may help save
the bacon.
The "chatter" you hear regarding
engines rusting inside and not reaching
TBO is closer to fact than fiction. While it certainly doesn't mean this
engine should be avoided, there are certain things that should be done
prior to any final decision. Yes, it is possible that a factory rebuilt
engine, or any engine as far as that goes, could be rendered unairworthy
from improper storage or lack of use. Inactivity in anything, including
our own bodies, works against us. As the old saying goes: "Use it or
lose it."
When an engine has been exposed to long periods of inactivity, whether
it be installed on an aircraft or stored on a hangar floor, we need to
take a close look at it before putting it back into service. This
particular case, where the engine had been overhauled and flown for a
few hours, then sat idle for some period, then flown again recently,
makes me nervous because we don't know what, if anything, was done to
try to
preserve the engine prior to its extended period of inactivity.
Let's assume nothing was done and then, after some period of time, the
engine was flown for a few hours. The first thing I'd do is remove the
oil filter, cut it and inspect it for any debris that may indicate
internal corrosion. If you aren't familiar with the proper way to do
this, I'd suggest you refer to a copy of the Champion Aviation Service
Manual AV6-R. You can check out this procedure by going to the Champion
website and click on Products, then Oil Filters, then AV6-R, page 25.
Regardless of your findings, I'd go a farther to satisfy myself that we
didn't have an internal corrosion issue. A good borescope inspection
would tell us quickly if there was any corrosion in the cylinders. If
corrosion is observed in any or all cylinders, that will tell us what
our next step will be. Let's say we only notice a slight discoloration
on
a couple of the cylinders. It's this type of situation that requires
someone with experience using the borescope because, if there is only
slight discoloration, you may be able to continue the engine in service
with no further concern after changing the oil and installing a new oil
filter. However, if there is a possibility the corrosion has caused
pitting on the cylinder wall, then the decision has been made for you.
The cylinder must be removed and honed to remove the pitting.
If there is any doubt about the internal condition of the cylinder or
cylinders, then removal should take place. Even though this may seem
inconvenient, it affords the opportunity of taking a close look at the
internal engine parts. Using a flashlight and a good inspection mirror,
you can closely inspect the condition of the cam lobes and corresponding
tappet bodies for indications of corrosion. Any corrosion in these areas
will determine whether the engine must be taken out of service for major
repair.
Let's assume there is no problem in this area and we can get back to our
corrective action on the cylinders. Cylinders may be sent to a good
overhaul shop for proper honing. Typically, cylinders that have
corrosion can be cleaned up by honing no more than .001 to .003 from the
cylinder bore. If they were new factory cylinders, this amount being
removed would still keep them in new cylinder dimensional tolerance.
Once the cylinders are honed, new piston rings should be installed and
the normal engine break-in procedure followed. You mentioned that a new
turbo had been installed, so please keep in mind that all turbocharged
Lycoming engines must be broken-in on ashless dispersant oil only.
I wish there were a more basic or simple answer regarding an engine of
this type, but there are just too many circumstances
surrounding engines
that end up in a condition like this. An engine could be in a hot humid
climate, which makes matters worse when compared to an engine in a cold,
dry climate, so you can understand why each engine has to be taken on a
case-by-case basis.
Good luck and remember, regardless of what you decide, whenever you
finally get something flying, be sure to fly it frequently. After all,
isn't that why we buy an aircraft in the first place?
Paul McBride, an expert on engines, retired after almost 40 years with
Lycoming.
--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Rod Wheeler" <
rw314.lf7965@virgin.net>
Subject: Plastic Interiors - replacement parts for the UK
Hi to all Members,
Our venerable G-TOTO a 1972 C177RG serial number 0049 is due a paint job
and at the
same time we are planning to tidy up the interior (re cover
the seats, carpet and clean and paint the plastic trim). We have an
excellent shop here in the UK who did the work 10 years ago and are
planning to re-use them
We would really appreciate advice on 2 areas;
1) How to get hold of the correct replacement plastic trim parts. We
only need a couple of pieces and believe the options are to go to Cessna
direct in the US or purchase through www.planeplastics.com - which would
you recommend and how to make sure we order the correct items?
[Cessna availability is a bit spotty; PlanePlastics has an online
catalog to show you what their parts look like, which is an aid to
getting the right part! You can also send them photos of YOUR part, for
comparison.]
2) Doors - our P2 side door has a poor seal around the front top which
means a drafty ride for passengers! From the outside
the door appears to
be flush with the fuselage but it is easy to open a crack with your
fingers since there is no locking mechanism at the front top. The
original door seal is still in place and in good shape but it seems
likely that the door itself is no longer the correct shape? We have
tried adding additional rubber strips to the inside sill but this does
not last long and we suspect is only helping to force the door outwards.
Is it possible to get the door "bent" inwards (without popping the
glass?!). Have re-read the wealth of ideas and advice on the Digest -
seems like a new set of seals from LLC (this is the same company as
planeplastics?) will do the trick?
[I'd definitely recommend the Cessna seal material. It appears to be
superior to the aftermarket alternatives. You might also want to remove
the headliner, since you'll be doing that anyway it seems, and go
flying.
Is the air REALLY coming around the door, or is it coming from
the wing root fairing, or someplace else? Fingertips are very sensitive
draft detectors. Paul]
Loving flying G-TOTO - after several hundred hours in PA-28 and Aztecs I
am a firm convert to the high wing fraternity!
CFO website is incredible - keep up the good work
Rod Wheeler London, (UK!)
[If all else fails, I'll just have to come look at your plane myself!
Email me the e-ticket, eh? :-) Paul]
--------------------------------------------------------
Misc & Various messages:
--------------------------------------------------------
From:
DonMNewman@aol.comSubject: UFO: You are invited
Dear Paul Millner,
The United Flying Octogenarians (UFO) are holding their Annual Meeting
on Thursday, November 11, 2010 at the
Convention Center, 300 E. Ocean
Blvd., Long Beach, California in the Shoreline Room AB at 12:00.
The UFO is a group of pilots who have acted as Pilot in Command on a
flight on or after their 80th Birthday. All kinds of experiences are
represented: former military pilots, former airline pilots, flight
instructors, general aviation pilots and even some freshly minted
pilots. Some of us have flown for over 50 years.
There are more than 600 UFO members in the United States. We use a
quarterly publication to communicate our activities.
The Annual Meeting will start with lunch; have a brief business meeting;
and then open it up to short presentations from the members who will
share experiences of interest to the group.
For further information please contact:
President Alan Blair, MD
Ablair1920@cox.net[Thanks
Alan! I've got it on my calendar for 23 years from now! Paul]
--------------------------------------------------------
CFO Fly-in details:
--------------------------------------------------------
CFO at AOPA Long Beach Summit!
Saturday November 13 – 11AM
See AOPA Announcements for meeting site – then adjourn to lunch
To create a virtual digest, containing historic items relevant to your
specific concern, see
http://www.cardinalflyers.com/x/vdigest.htmFor other Cardinal info, see the Cardinal Flyers website at
http://www.cardinalflyers.comPlease visit our sponsors at this address:
http://www.cardinalflyers.com/x/sponsors.htmRegardless of any
advice that may be exchanged here, your own certified
flight instructor, your own appropriately licensed mechanic, the Federal
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