Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #7879
From: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B - torsional vibration
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:42:59 -0700
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20B - torsional vibration

 

Powersport tests were found to be faulty by dint of the fact that they used a piston engine coupling to the dyno. The shaft excited itself and busted several times, and they blamed the engine. Torsional reversals are not a problem on a rotary-there aren’t any, but there is some harmonic vibrations, easily tamed. Completely different animal. Mazda did have some flexing problems on the early 20 shafts, they were all recalled or replaced. The forgings, metallurgy, and some details were changed.

 

Marc Wiese

 

 

Obviously I’m hopeful as well that we won’t run into any problems, but in spite of Paul Lamar’s dismissal; I know just enough about vibration analysis, and the risk of resonances to suggest we be wary until proven we’re in the clear.  I guess you are referring to Powersport tests that were done 8-10 years ago.  The coupling to a dyno is pretty much independent of engine type, however it is possible to have a shaft/coupling/brake system that could have a resonance frequency with the engine in either case, and break something.  They had no such problems with the 20B tests.  A shaft can’t excite itself; it has to have a driving frequency. 

Torsional reversals are not required for a torsional vibration resonance – torsional vibration is there regardless, and a resonant frequency in the system can cause things to break.  Torque reversals do aggravate the situation.  Vibration by itself isn’t the issue – it’s the potential for exiciting a resonance that can multiply forces by large factors that is the concern.

 

Barney, you’re right; harmonic dampers (especially non-viscous types) need to be tuned to the specific system, so the powersport unit isn’t of much interest.

 

Fluidampr.com (used to be part of vibratec) makes viscous dampers for a number of engines (none for a rotary), including one for Honda which may be adaptable.  But as you say, there isn’t data that says we need it, so I guess we’ll wait and see.  I’m just suggesting that we proceed with some caution, and hopefully avoid any unpleasant surprises.  When I get my engine running on the plane I’ll be watching for the behavior I saw on the dyno on the drive belts; and will try to find some means for measuring the deflection in the elastomer bushings in the drive.  That could provide some good info.

 

Al

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