flyrotary@lancaironline.net Mailing List Archive

Hi Gordon,

Response to each question you asked below - hope it helps.

1. The curved blue tube (I can not remember whether 1/2 or 3/4" dia - but its diameter fits almost perfectly up into the oil intake hole in the block (where the normal oil pickup is attached). I use the stock gasket on the inside over the oil intake hole and on the outside of the plate I have a 3/8" thick block with a hole in the center for the tube and two holes on each side using the oil pick-up mounting bolt holes in the block. The outside block around the tube has a concave "O" ring capture on the inside between block and oil plate. This is essential to make an air tight seal around the oil tube. VERY important to have no air leaks. The end of the blue cruved tube which extends through the plate goes into the block's oil pickup hole and then the 3/8" block (with "O" ring) is tighten down through the plate and into the block holes normally used for bolting the stock oil pickup onto the block.

2. Yes, the slump is actually a 10-12" long section of 4" rectangular tubing with the ends welded close it is welded to the oil plate. Actually the sump section is welded to a 1" x 1" rectangular tube which stand off the sump so you can get to the lower bolts holding the plate to the bottom of the engine block. This 1x1 has a number of 1/2" holes through it to the top of the sump and the oil flow from the engine block to the sump through them.

3. I forget exactly - approx 3 -4 quarts. The entire oil system (oil filter, oil cooler, sump, gearbox, etc) holds around 5-51/2 quarts. Since my rotary uses no oil between oil changes - it is more than adequate. In fact for the 1st 160 hours I did not have the sump and just flew with an regular oil pan. In that configuration I could not put more than about 3 1/2 quarts in the system - or else it would cover the oil drain back from the center housing and oil would get blow through the oil-filler tube. So you will also need to block the stock oil filler tube (at least if you follow my sump design). I find one of those rubber type stoppers you an find in the auto stores does the job fine.

4. The oil pump is in the engine block and the upper end of the curved blue tube goes through the covering plate directly into the oil pickup hole in the block. The tube extends into the hole approx 3/4" and is surrounded on the inside by the stock gasket and on the outside by the "O" ring I mentioned in 2.

5. I have a 1991 turbo block sans turbo - I have turbo charged autos and have two stock turbochargers in my shop - but, after considering I almost never fly full power (except for take off) the extra power, weight, complexity, etc - just was not worth it for my intended use. Other intended uses (such as Dave's air racing, or short field at high altitude) may make a turbo well worth while.

6. Real World Solutions RD-1 2.85:1 redrive currently - but, I used his 2.17:1 for the first 200 hours or so. The 2:17:1 rotates the prop opposite to conventional aircraft engines. The 2.85:1 permitted higher engine rpm for take off, permitted me to put a larger (slower turning) prop which pays off greatly for take off performance and I had ground clearance for a larger prop.

7. I use Performance Propellers 74x88 prop which gives me 6000-6100 static rpm. It really makes the take off performance nice.

Yes, always welcome to come by, Gordon. Just give a call or drop a line to make certain I am here (am most of the time as I am mostly retired {:>)) - just build a few electronic instruments for the experimental aircraft market.

Edward L. Anderson

704 821 7595
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

From: Gordon Alling

Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:00 AM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Newbie to list

Ed,

Thanks for the input and encouragement. I’d like to know more about the oil sump.

1. Is the curved blue tube that you mentioned a breather? Or, does it carry oil somewhere?

2. I assume you have holes at the base of the plate (replacing the oil pan) that allow oil to drain into the sump. Is that correct?

3. How much oil does your sump hold?

4. (I’m still quite ignorant) Where is the oil pump and how does it feed from the external sump?

5. (Different topic) Is your engine turbo charged? If so, which turbo?

6. Whose redrive do you use? What modifications did you have to make to accommodate the engine orientation?

7. Did you design your engine mount? Did you do any structural analysis on the mount? What g-loads did you use for design? What does your engine/redrive/prop weigh?

8. What prop are you using?

Soooo many questions. Thanks in advance for the info. I’m in Fredericksburg, VA. Perhaps I could drop by Weddington to see your RV sometime?

Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE

President

acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc.

540-786-2200

www.acumen-ea.com

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:28 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Newbie to list

Hi Gordon,

Welcome to the Fly Rotary list. I am probably one of the few (I am only aware of two now flying) Plugs Up installations currently flying - there may be more, but unknown to me. I have flown my installation for close to 12 years with around 600 hours on the installation in my RV-6a (Tractor installation).

There are no technical reasons that I have found precluding safely flying Plugs Up. In fact, there are some advantages. The biggest disadvantage is that almost all vendor products (such as motor mounts, gear boxes, etc) are designed for the automobile orientation - so some one-off parts and modifications may be necessary.

Also, You will almost certainly have to cobber up your own oil sump - you can see my (red/blue) oil sump in the one photo which has a plate covering the engine "bottom" and a sump(red box) below the engine line. The curved blue tube (from top of sump into plate is aluminum tubing. Do NOT use anything other than metal tubing - hose, even stainless steel braided hose, can possible collapse under the suction when hot. Also any air leaks in that particular tube - will mean the ability of the oil pump to suck oil will be compromised. I know of one instance where a hose (instead of metal tube) was used and eventually collapse - starving engine bearings and causing engine to seize.

Two advantages are 1: You can just about forget worrying about flooding the Plugs Up engine. The plugs are on top and exhaust ports on the bottom - so excess fuel quickly drains out and does not flood the sparkplug holes. 2: The fuel injectors in the block are not directly over the exhaust ports as they are in the auto installation. Gravity will cause any fuel leaks at the injectors to drop straight down missing the hot metal of the exhaust header (unless of course, you route your exhaust header under the injector area). I think the spark plugs are also easier to access - a minor point.

My engine uses the engine bolt holes in the front iron housing (next to the front aluminum housing) intended for mounting air conditioning components to support the "rear" of the engine. Then I pick up the bolt holes in the rear iron housing (one next to flywheel) on each side to support the front. These pickups use a triangular plate of metal with the small end attached to the motor mount with one bolt and the base of it attached to the engine through two bolts which also hold the gearbox to the rear housing. Photo attached which may help explain it better. There are certainly other (and perhaps better ways), but this has worked for me.

But, lots of information on this list will be applicable regardless of engine orientation.

Best Regards

Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

From: Gordon Alling

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:29 AM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Newbie to list

Hi all,

I’m new to the flyrotary (FR) list and am building a Defiant with two turbo 13Bs. I am looking at mounting the engines “plugs up” as described by Neil Kruiswyk and tried to contact him at the home.com address listed on the FR website. My e-mail keeps bouncing back. Does anyone have a current address for Neil?

Beyond that, I would like to identify others that have mounted these engines sideways (plugs-up). How many hours do your projects have on these installations? What issues have you uncovered that may be related to the plugs-up orientation? Has anyone found (more than expected) difficulty cooling that may be related to air pockets in the cooling jacket?

What about engine mounting? How do you grab the engine block? Have you looked at the stresses at the attach points?

I’m also considering a constant speed prop. Tracy Crook advises me that his PSRU will accept only electrically adjustable props and I have identified IVO and MT as possible suppliers. Are there other electrically adjustable props in this power category? Are there other PSRUs that accept a hydraulically actuated prop adjustment?

Thanks in advance for any advice you all can offer.

Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE

President

acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc.

540-786-2200