|
Those specs appear good, Bobby about the best I've seen
for our type of application
Ed
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:31 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The Case for Solid state Relays
(SSR)
I’m using EV200
contactors exclusively. Their pricy but I like the specs.
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
Bobby
From:
Rotary motors in aircraft
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:12
AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] The Case for Solid
state Relays (SSR)
I brought up the question of possible use of Solid State Relays (SSR) to replace the
electro-mechanical
contactors most of us use in our
flying electrical systems but I need
to
depend on the smarter "EE" (Electronic Engineer)
types of our group to tell me if this
would
be a good idea...........To the electrically challenged (Me) they look
good.......Light
weight, small, low
operating voltage (down to 3 volts), low current draw, low voltage
drop,
high
surge amp survival, etc..............They do require a heat sink to utilize
their maximum
amp
capibility............They do cost considerably more
than the contactors but do not
wear
or
degrade and if used within their limits will probably last longer than
me...........
I have included a link to the company that made the SSR that I have purchased
on
blind
faith that it would serve as my master relay........It is
a "Power-IO" model HDD-06V75
which
has been upgraded since my purchase by the HDD-06V75E
which will operate at
a
lower voltage,lower drop and lower current draw............Both versions will
stay operated
at
down to 1 volt..........Looking forward for a critique of this idea pro or
con...............<:)
Kelly
Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2"
(Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
From: Ed Anderson
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com> To: Rotary motors
in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 8:37
PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One
Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: Batteries
Yes,
Kelly, back a few years ago, I did look into them. The models I looked at had
some strange characteristics that I didn't fully understand (and didn't take the
time to), so I passed. Besides in my case 3 volts would taken me a bit
closer to the airport before the relay let loose, but would have done nothing to
provide a solution for my problem - head up and locked
{:>).
I'm
still waiting for the 16X before I start anything major new on my aircraft
- hope won't have to wait too much longer.
Sent: Monday, August 22,
2011 8:48 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] One
Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re:
Batteries
Have you ever
considered "Solid State Relays" for contactors..........The DC versions will operate
at
down to 3 volts and draw a lot less amperage than the electro mechanical
versions...........
Kelly
Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2"
(Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
From: Ed Anderson
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com> To: Rotary motors
in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 4:12
PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One
Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: Batteries
Yes,
I have also found my GPS can get confused -
especially in the inner city (where you need it the most). So can my brain
when tired and/or under pressure - the old brain can do some not so funny
things.
I
left out one important fact about why the switch in the wrong position caused
the engine out landing.
When
I had designed that switch in to disengage the battery from the alternator (in
case of an over voltage condition), the switch not only removed the battery from
the alternator line - but also all my critical systems (fuel, ignition) which
were "smartly" tied to my battery bus. So even though the alternator was
putting out plenty of power - even if the battery had been stone, cold dead, it
could have powered all of those power hungry devices. But having all
of that on the battery bus and the battery bus disconnected from alternator -
that pulled that battery down even quicker.
So
the fact that it last 45 minutes including cranking drain for engine start says
a lot about the Odyssey PC 680.
Sent: Monday, August 22,
2011 2:44 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One
Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re:
Batteries
Thanks.
I remembered you discussing it, but now it makes sense why you didn't see the
low voltage warning from the battery.
I know that
'fixation' issue, all to well. On business I'm always running
between meetings in new cities, and got to the point where I really loved (&
blindly trusted) my Garmin GPS. Well in Phoenix there was an "W.Shangri-La
Rd" vs "E. Shangri-La Rd". Van full of hungry
people wanting dinner, and I kept following the GPS... despite a passenger in the back telling me I was
taking the wrong route. I just figured the GPS
was smarter as it rcd traffic information, and would
get us there faster! Had I thought to look at a map, or listened the my
passenger, but with a load of people, 5pm traffic, and overload after a day in
the sun.... my brain wasn't working. Live and
learn!
From: Ed Anderson
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com> To: Rotary motors
in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 12:27
PM Subject: [FlyRotary] One
Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: Batteries
Actually, Tom,
in that particular incident - a second battery would have
only enabled me to fly too far away from the only safe airport to make a
return and dead stick into. IF
I had realized the root cause (a switch accidently put in the wrong position) then one battery
would have worked just as well as two {:>).
Having said that, I
certainly would not try to get anyone to change their mind about using two
batteries. . Some folks would not feel comfortable even with two
batteries - but, would add a second alternator, etc. So, you have to
think through your scenarios, the risk involved and your personal risk
tolerance. Yes, Bob now has several good electrical designs - for just
about any kind of power system you could come up with. Back in 1992, I had
never heard of Aeroelectric or
Bob.
But,
since my previous engine out almost 5 years previous had been fuel related and
the engine was sputtering in a similar manner - my diagnostic side of the brain
got locked in to searching for a fuel problem (again) - but even
switching tanks did no good - because, this time the "fuel problem" was a
decreasing electrical power. This incident clearly pointed out the need
for an emergency check list that involved checking both fuel AND electrical
systems. Coming up with one in your head with the engine sputtering is not
recommended {:>)
Contributing factors
were two early design decisions that on hindsight revealed
shortcomings.
One
was an electrical system design that permitted my voltmeter to keep showing me
the 13.8 volts being generated by the alternator while the battery voltage was
steadly decreasing. Yes, I had a low-voltage
light right in front of my eyes - but, it was wired into the alternator powered
circuit - so never showed low voltage because the alternator voltage was fine -
up to the point the relay released.
Now, had it occurred to me I might have an electrical problem -
and switched the volt meter to the battery (instead of alternator) AND had
thought to observe it, I would have seen the battery voltage decreasing and that
MIGHT have got me looking for an electrical problem rather than a fuel
problem. But, when you get your head locked into one focus - and you truly
have mental blinders on, NOT GOOD!
The
second design deficiency was that the relay holding the alternator On-Line
was provided current solely by the battery - so guess what happened when
the battery juice got too low to hold the alternator on-line? Right
"CLACK!!!!!" followed immediately by all lights, radios, LEDS, panel going dark. It gets even lonelier when
the lights go out. Had I two batteries - all of this would have happened
further from my emergency airport in Salem, Al.
No, I
have not added the second battery back in after the incident - because in
my particular case, the incident had nothing to do with one battery vs two
battery - it was a case of a mis-positioned
switch which the pilot never recognized was the cause - until later on the
ground, cleaning off the seat cushion. The corrective action was to put a
switch guard over that particular switch so it could NOT be accidently toggled incorrectly AND rewire my relay so
that a dead battery would no longer prevent my system from using the power of a
perfectly good alternator.
But,
this is just my perspective - provided for anyone to glean what they wish from
it - if that is two batteries, two alternators or what have you, then as always
in this hobby, that is up to individual choice.
Just don't make the same dumb mistakes I made, we know
how those turned out - advance the state of the art and make NEW mistakes
{:>)
Oh,
yes, the switch I accidently activated (I think I
probably hit it with my foot getting out of the aircraft at the previous
refueling stop) was one that enabled me to detach my battery from the
alternator. The thought at design time was that if my alternator ran-away
with high voltage, I could isolate the battery from the alternator thereby
preventing the battery from overheating/boiling and get to an emergency landing
on battery power alone. Seemed like a good idea at the
time.
Sent: Monday, August 22,
2011 12:35 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:
Batteries
Which Bob
Knuckles system? Z19?
I realize Ed
is happy with one battery, but I like two batteries. The THUNK of relays
all popping open and the realization of "I turned off the alternator, and
voltage dropped way too low.... followed with LAND NOW!" would have convinced Ed
to have put the second battery back in! It sure got my attention on why two
batteries is a good thing!(Great Story, but I'll let Ed tell
it!)
So two
batteries, and a BIG RED LIGHT with "low voltage" will go on my
panel.
I did the
spread sheet with 17AH batteries and flying time. Add in Night, and no place to
easily land.... two batties seem like a good trade
off. My biggest shock was the FORD style contactor needed 1Amp draw to remain closed.
Shutting down non essential, but leaving contactors,
PDF, ECU and coils.... System draw is
around 15 Amps. 17AH implies you'd have an hour, but at 15Amp draw... more like
30-40 minutes, hence two batteries as 1 hour flying time makes finding a landing
strip a little easier.
Tom
From: Ed Anderson
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com> To: Rotary motors
in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 11:20
AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:
Batteries
Joe,
I started out using two Concord 25AH RGB each
weighing 22 lbs for a total of over 44 lbs of battery (some joked I could get
home by using the start to crank the prop {:>)) ! I then transition to
two Odyssey PC-680 17AH batteries each weighing 14 lbs for a total of 28
lbs. Then after 6 years of flying with two batteries and never using the
second one - except to help crank on a cold morning, I removed one of
them. Have now been flying for over 4-5 years with one Odyssey
14lbs. I swap it out every two
years.
Ed
-------------------------------------------------- From:
<jskmberki@windstream.net> Sent:
Monday, August 22, 2011 11:59 AM To: "Rotary motors
in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Subject:
[FlyRotary] Batteries
> What size an type of batteries are required
for the rotary? I am leaning toward using 2 batteries and use Bob Nuckols system. Thanks for any help. >
> Joe Berki > Limo EZ > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
-- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
|