X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5101151 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:53:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=SOlsIBN44tkg4MqIq+y2aLZdhoA3kHpmiRsLue6rfnM= c=1 sm=0 a=6psgVPBOZ9MA:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:17 a=JHjZG0QFAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=g-ZOccbRAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=o2QoyYduAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ff8W63wXNSX3Yh0kznsA:9 a=1_S_MgvUz656MzP5gU4A:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Rbd-iJhMrt8A:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=QX1TN2WjEnEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=TlnOPt13aEMA:10 a=WpCEqUNmRgXOgcZ3:21 a=YLBGASeZxqdyrAlh:21 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=3kN-6rwAp_iNumIL84kA:9 a=seGGkxC9nmuG_wAmrqEA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=7god_763jbgA:10 a=HeoGohOdMD0A:10 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=aTnxH5rqqb0A:10 a=C0WId0_l4_Oyg1Bc:21 a=QuVQUHgmUB0WY5cu:21 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.175.135 Received: from [174.110.175.135] ([174.110.175.135:51440] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 61/98-15242-ADCC35E4; Tue, 23 Aug 2011 15:52:58 +0000 Message-ID: <40D3AE120DEA4892A25340057EA6F9B7@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The Case for Solid state Relays (SSR) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:51:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01CC618A.F2CB4290" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01CC618A.F2CB4290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Those specs appear good, Bobby about the best I've seen for our type of = application Ed From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The Case for Solid state Relays (SSR) I'm using EV200 contactors exclusively. Their pricy but I like the = specs.=20 =20 http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf =20 Bobby=20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:12 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] The Case for Solid state Relays (SSR) =20 =20 Ed & Group, I brought up the question of possible use of Solid State Relays = (SSR) to replace the=20 electro-mechanical contactors most of us use in our flying electrical = systems but I need=20 to depend on the smarter "EE" (Electronic Engineer) types of our group = to tell me if this would be a good idea...........To the electrically challenged (Me) they = look good.......Light weight, small, low operating voltage (down to 3 volts), low current = draw, low voltage drop, high surge amp survival, etc..............They do require a heat sink to = utilize their maximum amp capibility............They do cost considerably more than the = contactors but do not wear or degrade and if used within their limits will probably last longer = than me........... I have included a link to the company that made the SSR that I = have purchased on blind faith that it would serve as my master relay........It is a = "Power-IO" model HDD-06V75 which has been upgraded since my purchase by the HDD-06V75E which will = operate at a lower voltage,lower drop and lower current draw............Both = versions will stay operated=20 at down to 1 volt..........Looking forward for a critique of this idea = pro or con...............<:) =20 =20 http://www.power-io.com/products/hdd.htm =20 http://www.power-io.com/library/databulletin/hdd-family.pdf =20 http://www.power-io.com/library/databulletin/hdd-e-family.pdf =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 8:37 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: = Batteries Yes, Kelly, back a few years ago, I did look into them. The models I = looked at had some strange characteristics that I didn't fully = understand (and didn't take the time to), so I passed. Besides in my = case 3 volts would taken me a bit closer to the airport before the relay = let loose, but would have done nothing to provide a solution for my = problem - head up and locked {:>). =20 I'm still waiting for the 16X before I start anything major new on my = aircraft - hope won't have to wait too much longer. =20 Ed =20 =20 =20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 8:48 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] One Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: = Batteries =20 Ed, Have you ever considered "Solid State Relays" for = contactors..........The DC versions will operate=20 at down to 3 volts and draw a lot less amperage than the electro = mechanical versions...........=20 =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 4:12 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: = Batteries Yes, I have also found my GPS can get confused - especially in the inner = city (where you need it the most). So can my brain when tired and/or = under pressure - the old brain can do some not so funny things. =20 I left out one important fact about why the switch in the wrong position = caused the engine out landing. =20 =20 When I had designed that switch in to disengage the battery from the = alternator (in case of an over voltage condition), the switch not only = removed the battery from the alternator line - but also all my critical = systems (fuel, ignition) which were "smartly" tied to my battery bus. = So even though the alternator was putting out plenty of power - even if = the battery had been stone, cold dead, it could have powered all of = those power hungry devices. But having all of that on the battery bus = and the battery bus disconnected from alternator - that pulled that = battery down even quicker.=20 =20 So the fact that it last 45 minutes including cranking drain for engine = start says a lot about the Odyssey PC 680. =20 =20 =20 From: Tom Walter=20 Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 2:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: One Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: = Batteries =20 Ed, =20 Thanks. I remembered you discussing it, but now it makes sense why you = didn't see the low voltage warning from the battery. =20 I know that 'fixation' issue, all to well. On business I'm always = running between meetings in new cities, and got to the point where I = really loved (& blindly trusted) my Garmin GPS. Well in Phoenix there = was an "W.Shangri-La Rd" vs "E. Shangri-La Rd". Van full of hungry = people wanting dinner, and I kept following the GPS... despite a = passenger in the back telling me I was taking the wrong route. I just = figured the GPS was smarter as it rcd traffic information, and would get = us there faster! Had I thought to look at a map, or listened the my = passenger, but with a load of people, 5pm traffic, and overload after a = day in the sun.... my brain wasn't working. Live and learn!=20 =20 Tom =20 From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 12:27 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] One Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: = Batteries Actually, Tom, in that particular incident - a second battery would = have only enabled me to fly too far away from the only safe airport to = make a return and dead stick into. IF I had realized the root cause (a = switch accidently put in the wrong position) then one battery would have = worked just as well as two {:>). =20 =20 Having said that, I certainly would not try to get anyone to change = their mind about using two batteries. . Some folks would not feel = comfortable even with two batteries - but, would add a second = alternator, etc. So, you have to think through your scenarios, the risk = involved and your personal risk tolerance. Yes, Bob now has several = good electrical designs - for just about any kind of power system you = could come up with. Back in 1992, I had never heard of Aeroelectric or = Bob. =20 =20 =20 But, since my previous engine out almost 5 years previous had been fuel = related and the engine was sputtering in a similar manner - my = diagnostic side of the brain got locked in to searching for a fuel = problem (again) - but even switching tanks did no good - because, this = time the "fuel problem" was a decreasing electrical power. This = incident clearly pointed out the need for an emergency check list that = involved checking both fuel AND electrical systems. Coming up with one = in your head with the engine sputtering is not recommended {:>) =20 Contributing factors were two early design decisions that on hindsight = revealed shortcomings. =20 =20 One was an electrical system design that permitted my voltmeter to keep = showing me the 13.8 volts being generated by the alternator while the = battery voltage was steadly decreasing. Yes, I had a low-voltage light = right in front of my eyes - but, it was wired into the alternator = powered circuit - so never showed low voltage because the alternator = voltage was fine - up to the point the relay released. =20 Now, had it occurred to me I might have an electrical problem - and = switched the volt meter to the battery (instead of alternator) AND had = thought to observe it, I would have seen the battery voltage decreasing = and that MIGHT have got me looking for an electrical problem rather than = a fuel problem. But, when you get your head locked into one focus - and = you truly have mental blinders on, NOT GOOD! =20 The second design deficiency was that the relay holding the alternator = On-Line was provided current solely by the battery - so guess what = happened when the battery juice got too low to hold the alternator = on-line? Right "CLACK!!!!!" followed immediately by all lights, = radios, LEDS, panel going dark. It gets even lonelier when the lights = go out. Had I two batteries - all of this would have happened further = from my emergency airport in Salem, Al. =20 No, I have not added the second battery back in after the incident - = because in my particular case, the incident had nothing to do with one = battery vs two battery - it was a case of a mis-positioned switch which = the pilot never recognized was the cause - until later on the ground, = cleaning off the seat cushion. The corrective action was to put a = switch guard over that particular switch so it could NOT be accidently = toggled incorrectly AND rewire my relay so that a dead battery would no = longer prevent my system from using the power of a perfectly good = alternator. =20 But, this is just my perspective - provided for anyone to glean what = they wish from it - if that is two batteries, two alternators or what = have you, then as always in this hobby, that is up to individual choice. = =20 Just don't make the same dumb mistakes I made, we know how those turned = out - advance the state of the art and make NEW mistakes {:>) =20 Oh, yes, the switch I accidently activated (I think I probably hit it = with my foot getting out of the aircraft at the previous refueling stop) = was one that enabled me to detach my battery from the alternator. The = thought at design time was that if my alternator ran-away with high = voltage, I could isolate the battery from the alternator thereby = preventing the battery from overheating/boiling and get to an emergency = landing on battery power alone. Seemed like a good idea at the time. =20 Ed =20 Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com =20 From: Tom Walter=20 Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 12:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Batteries =20 Joe, =20 Which Bob Knuckles system? Z19? =20 I realize Ed is happy with one battery, but I like two batteries. The = THUNK of relays all popping open and the realization of "I turned off = the alternator, and voltage dropped way too low.... followed with LAND = NOW!" would have convinced Ed to have put the second battery back in! It = sure got my attention on why two batteries is a good thing!(Great Story, = but I'll let Ed tell it!) =20 So two batteries, and a BIG RED LIGHT with "low voltage" will go on my = panel. =20 I did the spread sheet with 17AH batteries and flying time. Add in = Night, and no place to easily land.... two batties seem like a good = trade off. My biggest shock was the FORD style contactor needed 1Amp = draw to remain closed. Shutting down non essential, but leaving = contactors, PDF, ECU and coils.... System draw is around 15 Amps. 17AH = implies you'd have an hour, but at 15Amp draw... more like 30-40 = minutes, hence two batteries as 1 hour flying time makes finding a = landing strip a little easier. =20 Tom =20 From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 11:20 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Batteries Joe, I started out using two Concord 25AH RGB each weighing 22 lbs for a = total of over 44 lbs of battery (some joked I could get home by using = the start to crank the prop {:>)) ! I then transition to two Odyssey = PC-680 17AH batteries each weighing 14 lbs for a total of 28 lbs. Then = after 6 years of flying with two batteries and never using the second = one - except to help crank on a cold morning, I removed one of them. = Have now been flying for over 4-5 years with one Odyssey 14lbs. I swap = it out every two years. Ed -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 11:59 AM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Batteries > What size an type of batteries are required for the rotary? I am = leaning toward using 2 batteries and use Bob Nuckols system. Thanks for = any help. >=20 > Joe Berki > Limo EZ >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01CC618A.F2CB4290 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Those specs appear good, Bobby about the best = I've seen=20 for our type of application
 
Ed

Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:31 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The Case for Solid state Relays=20 (SSR)

I=92m using = EV200=20 contactors exclusively. Their pricy but I like the specs.=20

 

http://re= lays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf

 

Bobby=20

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 = 9:12=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] The Case for = Solid=20 state Relays (SSR)

 

 

Ed=20 & Group,

      =20 I brought up the question of possible use of Solid State Relays = (SSR) to replace the=20

electro-mechanical=20 contactors most of us = use in our=20 flying electrical systems but I = need 

to=20 depend on the smarter "EE" (Electronic = Engineer)=20 types of our group to tell me if this

would=20 be a good idea...........To the electrically challenged (Me) they look=20 good.......Light

weight, = small, low=20 operating voltage (down to 3 volts), low current draw, low voltage=20 drop,

high=20 surge amp survival, etc..............They do require a heat sink to = utilize=20 their maximum

amp=20 capibility............They do cost = considerably more=20 than the contactors but do not=20 wear

or=20 degrade and if used within their limits will probably last longer than=20 me...........

      =20 I have included a link to the company that made the SSR that I have purchased=20 on

blind=20 faith that it would serve as my master relay........It is=20 a "Power-IO" model HDD-06V75

which=20 has been upgraded since my purchase by the HDD-06V75E=20 which will operate at

a=20 lower voltage,lower drop and lower current draw............Both versions = will=20 stay operated

at=20 down to 1 volt..........Looking forward for a critique of this idea pro = or=20 con...............<:)

 

 

http://www.power-io.com= /products/hdd.htm

 

http= ://www.power-io.com/library/databulletin/hdd-family.pdf

 

ht= tp://www.power-io.com/library/databulletin/hdd-e-family.pdf

  

Kelly=20 Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"=20 (Eventually)

"13B=20 ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50=20 Turbo

 

From: Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors=20 in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 = 8:37=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: One=20 Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: Batteries

Yes,=20 Kelly, back a few years ago, I did look into them. The models I looked = at had=20 some strange characteristics that I didn't fully understand (and didn't = take the=20 time to), so I passed.  Besides in my case 3 volts would taken me a = bit=20 closer to the airport before the relay let loose, but would have done = nothing to=20 provide a solution for my problem - head up and locked=20 {:>).

 

I'm=20 still waiting for the 16X before I start anything major new on my = aircraft =20 - hope won't have to wait too much longer.

 

Ed

 

 

 

From: Kelly Troyer=20

Sent: Monday, = August 22,=20 2011 8:48 PM

To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft

Subject: = [FlyRotary] One=20 Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Batteries

 

Ed,

  Have = you ever=20 considered "Solid State Relays" for  contactors..........The DC versions will operate =

at=20 down to 3 volts and draw a lot less amperage than the electro mechanical=20 versions........... 

 

Kelly=20 Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"=20 (Eventually)

"13B=20 ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50=20 Turbo

 

From: Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors=20 in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 = 4:12=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: One=20 Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: Batteries

Yes,=20 I have also found my GPS can get confused = -=20 especially in the inner city (where you need it the most).  So can = my brain=20 when tired and/or under  pressure - the old brain can do some not = so funny=20 things.

 

I=20 left out one important fact about why the switch in the wrong position = caused=20 the engine out landing. 

 

When=20 I had designed that switch in to disengage the battery from the = alternator (in=20 case of an over voltage condition), the switch not only removed the = battery from=20 the alternator line - but also all my critical systems (fuel, ignition) = which=20 were "smartly" tied to my battery bus.  So even though the = alternator was=20 putting out plenty of power - even if the battery had been stone, cold = dead, it=20 could have powered all of those power hungry devices.  But = having all=20 of that on the battery bus and the battery bus disconnected from = alternator -=20 that pulled that battery down even quicker. 

 

So=20 the fact that it last 45 minutes including cranking drain for engine = start says=20 a lot about the Odyssey PC 680.

 

 

 

From: Tom Walter=20

Sent: Monday, = August 22,=20 2011 2:44 PM

To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: One=20 Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Batteries

 

Ed,

 

Thanks. =20 I remembered you discussing it, but now it makes sense why you didn't = see the=20 low voltage warning from the battery.

 

I = know that=20 'fixation' issue, all to well.   On business I'm always = running=20 between meetings in new cities, and got to the point where I really = loved (&=20 blindly trusted) my Garmin GPS.  Well in Phoenix there was an "W.Shangri-La=20 Rd" vs "E.  = Shangri-La Rd". Van full = of hungry=20 people wanting dinner, and I kept following the GPS... despite a passenger in the back telling = me I was=20 taking the wrong route.  I just figured the GPS=20 was smarter as it rcd traffic information, = and would=20 get us there faster!  Had I thought to look at a map, or listened = the my=20 passenger, but with a load of people, 5pm traffic, and overload after a = day in=20 the sun.... my brain wasn't working.  Live and=20 learn! 

 

Tom

 

From: Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors=20 in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 = 12:27=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] One=20 Battery - Two Battery was [FlyRotary] Re: Batteries

Actually, = Tom,=20  in that particular incident - a second battery would have=20 only enabled me to fly too far away from the only safe airport to = make a=20 return and dead stick into.  IF=20 I had realized the root cause (a switch accidently put in the wrong position) then one = battery=20 would have worked just as well as two {:>). 

 

Having said = that, I=20 certainly would not try to get anyone to change their mind about using = two=20 batteries. . Some folks would not feel comfortable even with = two=20 batteries - but, would add a second alternator, etc.  So, you = have to=20 think through your scenarios, the risk involved and your personal risk=20 tolerance.  Yes, Bob now has several good electrical designs - for = just=20 about any kind of power system you could come up with.  Back in = 1992, I had=20 never heard of Aeroelectric or=20 Bob.

 

 

 

But,=20 since my previous engine out almost 5 years previous had been fuel = related and=20 the engine was sputtering in a similar manner - my diagnostic side of = the brain=20 got locked in to searching  for a fuel problem (again) - but = even=20 switching tanks did no good - because, this time the "fuel problem" was = a=20 decreasing electrical power.  This incident clearly pointed out the = need=20 for an emergency check list that involved checking both fuel AND = electrical=20 systems.  Coming up with one in your head with the engine = sputtering is not=20 recommended {:>)

 

Contributing = factors=20 were two early design decisions that on hindsight revealed=20 shortcomings.  

 

One=20 was an electrical system design that permitted my voltmeter to keep = showing me=20 the 13.8 volts being generated by the alternator while the battery = voltage was=20 steadly decreasing.  Yes, I had a = low-voltage=20 light right in front of my eyes - but, it was wired into the alternator = powered=20 circuit - so never showed low voltage because the alternator voltage was = fine -=20 up to the point the relay released.

 

   = Now,  had  it occurred to me I might have an electrical = problem -=20 and switched the volt meter to the battery (instead of alternator) AND = had=20 thought to observe it, I would have seen the battery voltage decreasing = and that=20 MIGHT have got me looking for an electrical problem rather than a fuel=20 problem.  But, when you get your head locked into one focus - and = you truly=20 have mental blinders on, NOT GOOD!

 

The=20 second design deficiency was that  the relay holding the alternator = On-Line=20 was provided current solely  by the battery - so guess what = happened when=20 the battery juice got too low to hold the alternator on-line?  = Right=20 "CLACK!!!!!"  followed immediately by all lights, radios, LEDS, panel going dark.  It gets even = lonelier when=20 the lights go out.  Had I two batteries - all of this would have = happened=20 further from my emergency airport in Salem, Al.

 

No, I=20 have not added the second battery back in after the incident  - = because in=20 my particular case, the incident had nothing to do with one battery vs = two=20 battery  - it was a case of a mis-positioned=20 switch which the pilot never recognized was the cause - until later on = the=20 ground, cleaning off the seat cushion.  The corrective action was = to put a=20 switch guard over that particular switch so it could NOT be accidently toggled incorrectly AND rewire = my relay so=20 that a dead battery would no longer prevent my system from using the = power of a=20 perfectly good alternator.

 

But,=20 this is just my perspective - provided for anyone to glean what they = wish from=20 it - if that is two batteries, two alternators or what have you, then as = always=20 in this hobby, that is up to individual choice. 

 

 Just don't make the same dumb mistakes I = made, we know=20 how those turned out - advance the state of the art and make NEW = mistakes=20 {:>)

 

Oh,=20 yes, the switch I accidently activated (I = think I=20 probably hit it with my foot getting out of the aircraft at the previous = refueling stop) was one that enabled me to detach my battery from the=20 alternator.  The thought at design time was that if my alternator = ran-away=20 with high voltage, I could isolate the battery from the alternator = thereby=20 preventing the battery from overheating/boiling and get to an emergency = landing=20 on battery power alone.  Seemed like a good idea at the=20 time.

 

Ed

 

Edward L.=20 Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305=20 Reefton=20 Road
Weddington, = NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

 

From: Tom Walter=20

Sent: Monday, = August 22,=20 2011 12:35 PM

To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Batteries

 

Joe,

 

Which Bob=20 Knuckles system?  Z19?

 

I = realize Ed=20 is happy with one battery, but I like two batteries.  The THUNK of = relays=20 all popping open and the realization of "I turned off the alternator, = and=20 voltage dropped way too low.... followed with LAND NOW!" would have = convinced Ed=20 to have put the second battery back in! It sure got my attention on why = two=20 batteries is a good thing!(Great Story, but I'll let Ed tell=20 it!)

 

So = two=20 batteries, and a BIG RED LIGHT with "low voltage" will go on my=20 panel.

 

I = did the=20 spread sheet with 17AH batteries and flying time. Add in Night, and no = place to=20 easily land.... two batties seem like a = good trade=20 off.  My biggest shock was the FORD style contactor needed 1Amp draw to remain = closed. =20 Shutting down non essential, but leaving contactors,=20 PDF, ECU and coils....   System = draw is=20 around 15 Amps. 17AH implies you'd have an hour, but at 15Amp draw... = more like=20 30-40 minutes, hence two batteries as 1 hour flying time makes finding a = landing=20 strip a little easier. 

Tom

 

From: Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors=20 in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 = 11:20=20 AM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Batteries

Joe,=20 I started out using two Concord 25AH RGB = each=20 weighing 22 lbs for a total of over 44 lbs of battery (some joked I = could get=20 home by using the start to crank the prop {:>)) !  I then = transition to=20 two Odyssey PC-680 17AH batteries each weighing 14 lbs for a total of 28 = lbs.  Then after 6 years of flying with two batteries and never = using the=20 second one - except to help crank on a cold morning, I removed one of=20 them.  Have now been flying for over 4-5 years with one Odyssey=20 14lbs.  I swap it out every two=20 years.

Ed

-------------------------------------------------= -
From:=20 <jskmberki@windstream.net&= gt;
Sent:=20 Monday, August 22, 2011 11:59 AM
To: "Rotary motors=20 in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Batteries

> What size an type of batteries are = required=20 for the rotary?  I am leaning toward using 2 batteries and use Bob = Nuckols system.  Thanks for any = help.
>=20
> Joe Berki
> Limo EZ
>
> --
> Homepage:  = http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l=20


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0036_01CC618A.F2CB4290--