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I suppose that would make sense. I threw
away my RX-8 flex plate last year because I wouldn’t need it. :>(
Bill B
From: Rotary motors in aircraft
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011
2:23 AM
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Ah, no, you misunderstood. At this point Kelly and I futz around
with making the flywheel work. Then, after much work and $$, Tracy
finally decides to change his adapter plate so that it fits the RX8 flex plate
and solves the issue for everyone. :-)
David Leonard
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hey! All of us with the RD1-X drive are in the same
boat. I thought you guys were making these up to send out to all of
us???! :>)
Bill B
From: Rotary motors in aircraft
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
On Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:52
PM
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:
Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
Yea, that is a
bummer, but I was not very hopeful. So we can weld an additional ring
gear onto the face of the other, or machine our existing starters
and/or flex plates. I will probably do the latter. Won't be that
big of a deal I hope. Thanks for being the parts consultant. At
least now you have a spare start to use should you ever need one.
David
On Tue, Jul 19,
2011 at 2:06 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Turbo starter is
here..........Priliminary quick and dirty measurements are 1.875 starter flange
to far end of unactivated starter
(bendix) gear) which is 0.121 more than your 1.754 number
and the same for all practical
purposes considering probable slight errors.............I do not have
1988 manual trans starter at the moment
but will be at my hangar tomorrow and will pick it up
to bring back with me for an in depth
exam for any differences between them............If there is
a difference I would think it would be in
the starter gear as 1986-91 NA manual trans starter
was used on a slightly smaller flywheel
although it has worked well on the larger auto trans
flexplate..........."Sigh".........Such
is experimental aviation and so much for "AS"umptions....<:)
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:28 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Hi Kelly,
I already took Tracys plate into account. (I measured it at
.520 in). So it was 1.234 plus the .520 for the plate. For ease, I
measured when the solenoid was NOT activated. Crossing fingers, but ready
to mill the plate and starter.... eh, I mean, hire someone to do it :-)
David
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Kelly
Troyer <keltro@att.net>
wrote:
So adding the RD1X mount
plate thickness 0.500 (1/2 inch) we have a measurement of approx 2.254
inch...........Tracy
calls for a 1986 NA (86 to 91 are
the same) manual transmission starter.............I do not know exactly
what difference the
turbo starter has except the turbo
flywheel and automatic flex-plate are slightly larger in diameter and have more
ring gear
teeth than the 86-91 NA manual
flywheel................There was no turbo engine offered until
1987.............I should have the
turbo starter in a few days so we can
decide if it will be about 0.375 in longer from mounting flange to
end of the starter
gear teeth when activated by the
solenoid..............Cross your fingers !!............<:)
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:34
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Kelly, here is the starter measurement.
This is the starter that Tracy
recommends, I forget which one that is. From the engine side of the
mounting flange, to the far end of the tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give or
take.
--
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly
Troyer <keltro@att.net>
wrote:
While they are at it have
them turn the pressure plate surface down to the pressure plate mounting
level so all of the rubber osolator is on
a flat surface without a 0.018 step at the outer edge.......Or
you could put a washer under the drive
plate (like the top washer)............But this would put the drive
plate further forward on the input shaft
splines the thickness of the washer..........I do not khow if this
would pose a problem or not...........
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 7:55
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Well, NOW you tell me...
:-) Yea, that was going to be an issues reguardless of which
solution we chose. I think I will bring mine to a machine shop and let
them figure it out :-)
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly
Troyer <keltro@att.net>
wrote:
Forgot to add that there are
3 clutch pressure plate locating dowels in the flywheel.........You
will have to knock these out with a punch
as their position will not let you properly center the
RD1X drive plate and will not let the
drive plate "Float" properly..............I have not come up
with a method yet to center the drive
plate with the absolute accuracy needed for drilling the
flywheel for the drive plate attach
bolts...........Maybe some of the group with more machinists
skills than I can make a
recommendation !!..................Also the rear of the attach bolt holes
will need to be spotfaced to provide a
flat surface for the bolt head or nut and washer from
what I have observed on the backside of
my flywheel........................<:)
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are
the important flywheel measurements
The link attached shows the
prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the left in the photo.............Do you
have your starter flange
to gear measurement handy as my RD1X
starter (not the turbo model) is 55 miles away at the
moment...........
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Thanks to all your hard work and research,
I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of this. Decided that I was
done with the flex plates. Thanks for locating a great price. I am
a little nervous that the picture does not look right, but I guess I can always
return it.
Like you, I figure we will solve the
starter issue one way or another.
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly
Troyer <keltro@att.net>
wrote:
Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just
delivered and I am in process of taking
your measurements to see where we
stand................This flywheel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)
and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it
with no problem (through drill and spotface the rear of the flywheel
because it has a slight taper in that
area).............I just have to verify just where the RD1C drive splines
will be positioned (fore and aft) on the
input shaft compared to the RX7 flexplate.............The clutch plate
friction area is slightly raised (about
0.065) above the clutch mount area and I would probably take it
down tto the clutch level (probably not
necessary but would reduce weight slightly.............I have a 93-95
Turbo starter on the way (should take
care of starter mesh problem)..............If you are interested I can
guide you to another 93-95 starter (used
$49.00 with/shipping) if it is still for sale.............
One other thing at this time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be
usable but it is listed as 116
ring gear teeth and I have not found out
what its diameter is and what starter would be used with it......
I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may use the
86-91 NA manual trans
starter............You need to talk to
the manufacturer..........They are in Lancaster,
Calif............The 9.8 lb
version is a little more expensive due to
more extensive machine work to reduce weight.............See the
link below............The link to
THMotorsports has the best price I have found on the 9.8 lb flywheel......The
photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8
lb version...........
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are
the important flywheel measurements
Sounds encourageing...............Replacing the starter with turbo model would
seem to be
least expensive and safer than adding
additional ring gear + welding..............I also echo what
Bill and Bobby have said concerning the
Al Wick fix and getting Tracy's
thoughts about cause
of problem and perhaps need for periodic
inspection and/or rubber isolator replacement........
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
I finally got to the hangar and measured
out my S5 turbo flywheel and the remains of my S5 flexplate. The results
are very encouraging, even as good as the possibly could be to make the swap,
but I only had ten min at the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my
daughter from daycare, so they are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no
guarantees. The height measurements of the flex plate were particularly
suspect because, well, mine is all warped and broken.
Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect
fit. As we suspected, same size, same tooth spacing.
Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As
measured from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft
means aft in the CAR). The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring gear
1.290 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.
So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft. This
is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear thickness
is .365 ... So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is
weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and there will be
teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm
It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will
look into that.
Damper Plate Placement - On the
flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or aft) of the ring gear. On the
flex plate, the mounting surface is recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. A
nd it all pretty much works out.
That position on the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which flywheel
you have and how much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I
assume well-worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was
0.950. Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might me meant to
be right on. Or, any difference could be made up by trimming down the
spline on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between the two.
So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go. Stout, easy to get, pick your
weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on a
second gear ring.
--
David Leonard
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
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