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| Ah, no, you misunderstood. At this point Kelly and I futz around with making the flywheel work. Then, after much work and $$, Tracy finally decides to change his adapter plate so that it fits the RX8 flex plate and solves the issue for everyone. :-)
David Leonard On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hey! All of us with the RD1-X drive are
in the same boat. I thought you guys were making these up to send out to all
of us???! :>)
Bill B
From: Rotary motors in aircraft
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:52
PM
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Yea, that is a bummer, but I was not very hopeful. So we can weld
an additional ring gear onto the face of the other, or machine
our existing starters and/or flex plates. I will probably do
the latter. Won't be that big of a deal I hope. Thanks for being
the parts consultant. At least now you have a spare start to use should
you ever need one.
David
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Turbo starter is here..........Priliminary quick and dirty measurements are
1.875 starter flange
to far
end of unactivated starter (bendix) gear) which is 0.121 more than your 1.754
number
and the
same for all practical purposes considering probable slight
errors.............I do not have
1988
manual trans starter at the moment but will be at my hangar tomorrow and will
pick it up
to
bring back with me for an in depth exam for any differences between
them............If there is
a
difference I would think it would be in the starter gear as 1986-91 NA manual
trans starter
was
used on a slightly smaller flywheel although it has worked well on the larger
auto trans
flexplate..........."Sigh".........Such
is experimental aviation and so much for "AS"umptions....<:)
Kelly
Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011
11:28 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Hi Kelly,
I already took
Tracys plate
into account. (I measured it at .520 in). So it was 1.234 plus the .520
for the plate. For ease, I measured when the solenoid was NOT activated.
Crossing fingers, but ready to mill the plate and starter.... eh, I mean,
hire someone to do it :-)
David
On Mon, Jul
18, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
So adding the RD1X mount plate thickness 0.500 (1/2 inch) we have a
measurement of approx 2.254 inch...........Tracy
calls
for a 1986 NA (86 to 91 are the same) manual transmission
starter.............I do not know exactly what difference the
turbo
starter has except the turbo flywheel and automatic flex-plate are slightly
larger in diameter and have more ring gear
teeth than
the 86-91 NA manual flywheel................There was no turbo engine offered
until 1987.............I should have the
turbo
starter in a few days so we can decide if it will be about 0.375 in
longer from mounting flange to end of the starter
gear
teeth when activated by the solenoid..............Cross your fingers
!!............<:)
Kelly
Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
From: David
Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:34
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Kelly, here
is the starter measurement. This is the starter that Tracy recommends, I forget which one that is.
From the engine side of the mounting flange, to the far end of the tear
tooth, I measure 1.754 - give or take.
--
On Mon, Jul
18, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
While they are at it have them turn the pressure plate surface down to the
pressure plate mounting
level
so all of the rubber osolator is on a flat surface without a 0.018 step at the
outer edge.......Or
you
could put a washer under the drive plate (like the top washer)............But
this would put the drive
plate
further forward on the input shaft splines the thickness of the
washer..........I do not khow if this
would
pose a problem or not...........
Kelly
Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
From: David
Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 7:55
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Well,
NOW you tell me... :-) Yea, that was going to be an issues
reguardless of which solution we chose. I think I will bring mine to a
machine shop and let them figure it out :-)
On Mon, Jul
18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plate locating dowels in the
flywheel.........You
will
have to knock these out with a punch as their position will not let you
properly center the
RD1X
drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float"
properly..............I have not come up
with a
method yet to center the drive plate with the absolute accuracy needed for
drilling the
flywheel
for the drive plate attach bolts...........Maybe some of the group with
more machinists
skills
than I can make a recommendation !!..................Also the rear of the
attach bolt holes
will
need to be spotfaced to provide a flat surface for the bolt head or nut and
washer from
what I
have observed on the backside of my
flywheel........................<:)
Kelly
Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
From: Kelly
Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are
the important flywheel measurements
The link attached shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the left in the
photo.............Do you have your starter flange
to gear
measurement handy as my RD1X starter (not the turbo model) is 55
miles away at the moment...........
Kelly
Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
From: David
Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Thanks to all
your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of
this. Decided that I was done with the flex plates. Thanks for
locating a great price. I am a little nervous that the picture does not
look right, but I guess I can always return it.
Like you, I
figure we will solve the starter issue one way or another.
On Sat, Jul
16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just
delivered and I am in process of taking
your
measurements to see where we stand................This flywheel is a thing of
beauty (to a RotorHead)
and my
RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through drill and spotface
the rear of the flywheel
because
it has a slight taper in that area).............I just have to verify just
where the RD1C drive splines
will be
positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to the RX7
flexplate.............The clutch plate
friction
area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch mount area and I would
probably take it
down
tto the clutch level (probably not necessary but would reduce weight
slightly.............I have a 93-95
Turbo
starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh problem)..............If
you are interested I can
guide
you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) if it is still for
sale.............
One other thing at this time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be
usable but it is listed as 116
ring
gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is and what starter would
be used with it......
I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may use the
86-91 NA manual trans
starter............You
need to talk to the manufacturer..........They are in Lancaster, Calif............The
9.8 lb
version
is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine work to reduce
weight.............See the
link
below............The link to THMotorsports has the best price I have found on
the 9.8 lb flywheel......The
photo
on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........
Kelly
Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
From: Kelly
Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
Sounds encourageing...............Replacing the starter with turbo model would
seem to be
least
expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + welding..............I
also echo what
Bill
and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting Tracy's thoughts about cause
of
problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubber isolator
replacement........
Kelly
Troyer
"DYKE DELTA
JD2" (Eventually)
"13B
ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50
Turbo
From: David
Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are
the important flywheel measurements
I finally got
to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and the remains of my S5
flexplate. The results are very encouraging, even as good as the possibly
could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min at the hangar before I had to
leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, so they are one try and slightly
sloppy... I make no guarantees. The height measurements of the flex plate
were particularly suspect because, well, mine is all warped and broken.
Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect
fit. As we suspected, same size, same tooth spacing.
Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As
measured from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft
means aft in the CAR). The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring gear
1.290 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.
So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft. This
is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear thickness
is .365 ... So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is
weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and there will be
teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm
It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will
look into that.
Damper Plate Placement - On the
flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or aft) of the ring gear. On the
flex plate, the mounting surface is recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. A
nd
it all pretty much works out. That position on the flywheel will vary
somewhat depending on which flywheel you have and how much wear you have on the
clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well-worn) flywheel the placement was
0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950. Pretty damn close and given
measurement error it might me meant to be right on. Or, any difference
could be made up by trimming down the spline on the damper plate or removing or
adding spacers between the two.
So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go. Stout, easy to get, pick your
weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on a
second gear ring.
--
David Leonard
-- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net
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