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-----Original Message-----
From: Al Gietzen
[mailto:ALVentures@cox.net]
Here’s a thought. When the
plane is subjected to high G-loads, there will be some flexing of the mounting
plate on Tracy’s drive. Maybe small, but even a little would
matter. Anytime that plate is not perfectly perpendicular to the shaft
there can be serious; (and cyclical due to the rotation) stresses. It
occurs to me that Dave’s situation may be somewhat exceptional since, as
I know; he is prone to do various aerobatics on just about any flightJ. And considering
the pylon racing – extended periods of high G-loads could result in
extended periods of cyclical stress.
Something to consider.
Al
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Friday, July
15, 2011 10:11 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here
are the important flywheel measurements
I am not sure what you mean by end play. The
drive's input shaft has thrust bearings to prevent any forces other than
rotation from being transmitted to the flex plate. The only
forward-rearward forces on the flex plate are the gyroscopic forces, and I cant
do anything about that other than beef up the plate. Also, just
because it holds up in the car (usually) does not mean it is suited for
aircraft. The auto flex plate was only used in 160 h.p. normally
aspirated cars with a very low duty cycle and minimal gyroscopic forces.
With the RX-8 they obviously felt they needed to beef it up.
They made it thicker and got rid of the lightening holes that were
the starting point for all my cracks. Also that torque
converter in the car you mention may help to stabilize the flex
plate. Someone else has also pointed out the twisting moment of the
damper bolts onto the plate. A thicker fly wheel it the only thing I can
think of to mitigate that. The RX8 flex plate would be a big improvement,
but it wont readily fit. Fortunately, the light weight fly wheel will not
be too difficult to adapt, and the extra rotational weight will only help to
further dampen the power pulses. It will put some additional stress on
the e-shaft.. but that thing has a very good durability record. In
e-shafts we trust..
Thanks for the input though!
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
David,
I can’t help but
think that you may be fixing something that is not broken. I realize that
the flexplate came apart on your plane, but that doesn’t mean that the
flexplate is the cause of the problem. That flexplate holds up quite well
in the car with a heavy torque converter attached to it. Think of the
forces when a car under heavy acceleration changes gear! As long as the forces
are along the plane of the plate it is very strong. Not so much in the
forward/rearward directions. In fact that would cause metal fatigue and
cause it to break just like yours did. I think that what ever is causing
the endplay is what you should be looking at. I suspect that if you check
out the transmission on the car you will find that the endplay of the input
shaft is controlled by thrust bearings or some such device. Lynn may know the answer to
this??
That msg from Al Wick
really resonates with me. Tracy had to install a thrust bearing to prevent the drive shaft from
hitting the bottom of the pilot bearing and causing an eccentric shaft failure
on the engine. Maybe you now need to add a cage similar to what Al was
discussing that will trap the shaft end play completely. That, to me,
makes more sense than adding a bigger flywheel. If you strengthen the
weak spot, you will then discover where the next weakest spot is because that
will be the next failure!
This is a real
opportunity for you and the rest of us with the same drive. Please study
this a little more before you begin the fix!
Bill B
From: Rotary
motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Friday, July
15, 2011 12:42 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are
the important flywheel measurements
I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5
turbo flywheel and the remains of my S5 flexplate. The results are very encouraging,
even as good as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min
at the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, so
they are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees. The height
measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect because, well, mine is
all warped and broken.
Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect
fit. As we suspected, same size, same tooth spacing.
Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As
measured from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft
means aft in the CAR). The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring gear
1.290 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.
So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft. This
is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear thickness
is .365 ... So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is
weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and there will be
teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm
It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will
look into that.
Damper Plate Placement - On the
flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or aft) of the ring gear. On the
flex plate, the mounting surface is recessed (or forward) from the ring gear.
And it all pretty much works out. That position on the flywheel will vary
somewhat depending on which flywheel you have and how much wear you have on the
clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well-worn) flywheel the placement was
0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950. Pretty damn close and given
measurement error it might me meant to be right on. Or, any difference
could be made up by trimming down the spline on the damper plate or removing or
adding spacers between the two.
So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go. Stout, easy to get, pick your
weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on a
second gear ring.
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
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