Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #52646
From: Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com>
Subject: RE: Water Cooling and Oil Cooling Connection
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:40:06 -0700
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Thanks to all for the info and follow-up questions.
My oil cooling system has 2 coolers 11x6x2.75 for a total of 360 cubic inches mounted in the cheeks.  The water radiator (22x5.5x5) is approx. 600 cubic inches mounted underneath the engine. The air inlets and outlets are separate.
What are the actual temperatures? - well this is dependent upon operating conditions but regardless of conditions, my oil temperature is always about 40 degrees cooler than water.
This in itself isn't a problem; the problem is that my water temperature is reaching redline (225-230F) after a full throttle climb for approximately 1.5 minutes with OAT 80F, meanwhile oil is 180-185F. Cruise at OAT=80F will give
190F water temp and oil about 150F. Conversely, a full throttle climb for approximately 1.5 minutes on a day with OAT at 40F, my water temperature stabilizes at 180F and oil sitting around 140F. Cruise at OAT=40F will give 150F
water temp and oil about 110F.  No thermostat and no cowl flaps so temps are directly related to air temperature.
So Lynn, I don't have too much oil cooling but definitely not enough water cooling. What to do?
Can I risk sacrificing/trading some of my oil cooling in the hopes of improving water temperatures and will the improved water temperature situation limit the adverse affects on oil temperature?
Or should I leave my oil cooling system alone and concentrate on the water cooling loop separately?
Jeff
 
From: Lehanover@aol.com
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Water Cooling and Oil Cooling Connection
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 21:00:19 EDT
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
In a message dated 10/25/2010 5:07:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bhughes@qnsi.net writes:

I have an unusual problem – my oil temperature is about 40F lower than my water temperature. I have 2 oil coolers and 1 water radiator.

I’m considering converting 1 oil cooler into a water radiator.  Obviously my oil temperature is going to increase, but if the water temperature is improved significantly will this also help in reducing the rise in oil temperature.  So far, my experiments have shown that reducing the oil temperature has little effect on water temperature.

Does anyone know if reducing their water temperature also reduces oil temperature? – or are the two systems mostly independent?  

Jeff Whaley

The ideals would be 160-180 water and 160 max oil temps.
 
Water temps track power output slowly. Water (coolant) is taking heat out of aluminum and can do this at a very high rate (aluminum radiator). So water temps wander up and down slowly with power changes.
 
The oil is a poor conductor of heat. Hard to heat and hard to cool. The cast iron rotors are cooled by oil, badly foamed sprayed into the center holes from the jets in the crank. So rotor temps are difficult to control. And rotor temps can limit HP if not well controlled.
 
High rotor face temps limit cylinder filling and "in effect" reduce the engines displacement. Part of rotor cooling is the intake charge absorbing a lot of heat (Radiant energy) from the rotor face. When this is going on, the high charge temperatures decrease the charge volume ingested, increase burn rates, and moves you closer to a detonation event.
 
Not usually a factor in NA engines or very low boost turbos. So long as no other factors are in play, like a spark plug with too high a heat range, a burr on a ground electrode, best power mixture, (stay lean or rich of best power), ignition advanced too far. Or oil too hot, or carbon build up on the rotors forming a glow plug.  
 
Once you have the oil too hot, it will take a while to get the temps back down. You must reduce fuel consumption. Hotter oil, more foam, worse conductivity, longer cool down time.
 
Also keep in mind that the over heated water or oil is making the coolers more efficient, so the effect is not quite as obvious. Too hot is actually way to hot.
 
In racing I told the driver to short shift when the oil was too hot. Like 180-190. So instead of shifting at 9,600, shift at 9,300 for a lap and see if it comes down a bit.  This never worked out, because the driver never blinks for 45 minutes and his drivers suit is wet from adrenaline running out of his nose. So I installed a second dash board with a movie camera pointed at it. Very informative. Missed shifts, wrong gear, not close to the rev limit, on the rev limiter, no regard for temps????????????? Like talking to the cat.
 
Too low an oil temp is one curse I never had. With 3 Setrabs.
 
The actual temps would be nice to see......
 
Lynn E. Hanover

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