Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #51671
From: <shipchief@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: High test and turbos
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 12:32:06 -0400
To: <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Lynn:
DITTO Kelly's request.
I have a 'street ported' 1988 13B Turbo with a Turbonetics 60-1, and Tracy's EC-2 & RD-1 gear.
It's in an RV-8 and is not (yet) intercooled. I have a CATTO 2 blade prop the same pitch & diameter as he builds for a 180 HP O-360 powered RV-8 (left turning of course). I simply extrapolated the rpm from 2700 for the rated 180 hp, to estimate 200 HP @ 3000, which would be a good RPM for the 13b, about 6570 RPM.
I have 1.2 hours ground run time at this time. Cooling upgrades seem to work well, with max rpm during test 3600 so far...
Van designed the RV-8 for 200 HP, so I am building to that as a goal for the initial flight test, but would like to refine the A/C and powerplant as I gain experience, and install a CATTO 3 blade. what power draw would require intercooling, and what kind of safety margins should be considered, like instrumentation, and such? Greg Richter talked me out of waste gates and blow off valves, because they are heavy and complex. He said don't worry about it, unless ground or flight tests demonstrate a need for it.?
Scott E



-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Jul 11, 2010 7:01 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: High test and turbos

Lynn,
    What would be your educated guess for the ignition advance to avoid detonation
 for  a side housing intake 13B (intercooled to <130 f ) , 9.4 to 1 comp rotors , 87
octane (no alcohol) and turbo boost limited to 10 in/hg (5 psi) ?? ..................
 
Thanks
 
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold



From: "Lehanover@aol.com" <Lehanover@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, July 10, 2010 11:24:27 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] High test and turbos

When the SCCA forced us rotary people to use racing gas Darryl Drummond Dynoed one engine with both fuels Street high test 97 Octane and VP 110 Octane racing. The racing fuel cost 4 HP over the street gas. The SCCA relented and we got to use street gas again.
You get the power back from racing gas by running 14:1 compression ratios.
 
I use 87 Octane for racing. No alcohol of course.
 
Alcohol =                    80,000 BTUs.
 
Typical street motor fuel
regular no alcohol = 119,000 BTUs.
 
Low sulphur #2 diesel= 130,000 BTUs.
 
Bunker C
(Used on old ships) = 145,000 BTUs  
 
The turbo charged rotary should be thought of as a different engine. Only similar to a rotary.
The boost allows for over filling the chamber with mixture so that the engine is (in effect) larger in displacement. This increased volume of mixture is compressed into the same head space as the NA engine, so the effective compression ratio goes up. Maybe way up dependent on boost pressure.  So the compression ratio becomes variable as the RPM go up and down. More boost means higher heat of compression, so if more than a few pounds are used, an intercooler is used to reduce the intake air temperature.
 
Remember that detonation is charge temperature dependent.
 
The turbo engine is typically more efficient than the NA engine due to the higher effective  compression ratio. The cold combustion chamber helps in the turbo so higher boost can be used without detonation problems. Less unburned fuel is left behind, and what is keeps energy to the turbo high. Energy removed from the exhaust to spin the turbo reduces muffling problems. For high boost engines the ignition map is nearly backwards. At high boost the timing comes back towards zero advance, as flame speeds in the high pressure chamber go way up. The ignition system must be programmable.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
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