Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #46073
From: Mike Wills <rv-4mike@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Lean Surge?: [FlyRotary] Initial Tuning at Low RPM - surging?
Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 08:05:55 -0700
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Ed's story makes me glad I'm doing my test flying off of an 8,000' runway. :-)  Although doing any testing for the past coule of weeks has been a real pain - the Red Bull Air Race is in town and they've pretty much taken over the airport. Pretty cool to see their operation up close. The airplanes these guys fly are unbelievable.
 
Ed says it would not be impossible to tune without an graphical representation of the MCT of some sort. He may be right about that, but I doubt you could ever get it as well tuned as you could with the proper instrumentation. At near idle settings the MCT shifts from MAP based to RPM based. In this region the resolution becomes much finer. I just dont see how you could tune this section of the MCT properly without being able to see it - you are highly likely to leave gaps. At least that was my experience.
 
I thought my engine was tuned pretty well before I installed the EFISM. Well enough to do my first flight. Had some engine surging on base and final approach - nothing serious, just enough to get your attention. This surging had not been evident on the ground. Decided to bite the bullet and install the EFISM. I was shocked at how many gaps there were in the MCT and this was after about 15 hours of ground running/tuning.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 4:57 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Lean Surge?: [FlyRotary] Initial Tuning at Low RPM - surging?

Hi Mike,

 

As mentioned by others, improper fuel ratio is likely the cause.  In my case, I once had to abort a takeoff early in my project when I still used an aftermarket EFI.  You could only set the values for rpm higher than static after take off and the rpm started to increase.  I had just lifted off with the engine rpm inching past static rpm when the engine began a radical surge – would swing from 4800 – 5500 rpm.  Not knowing the cause at the time, I elected to abort the take off and put her back on the 2200 ft runway.  Touched down 300 ft from the end doing approx 70-80 mph and managed to get most stopped on the runway (did go off the end about 10-12 ft).

 

The problem was when the engine started to using the part of the fuel map that I had to extrapolate the values for (rpm higher than static), it was too lean.  As a consequence when the engine hit this region and found less fuel than needed to maintain the rpm, the engine being ‘leaned out” loss power and the rpm dropped back until it found a region of the fuel map that was “rich” enough to support it, it would then start to run back up the fuel map into regions of increasing richness until it again hit the lean region, would drop back, etc.  If I had been more knowledgeable, had more time and thought of it,  I would have simply reached over and increase the manual mixture control – would have certainly been less interesting than my panic 300 ft track of tire rubber left on the tarmac {:>)-

 

As was noted by Mike Wills, not having a visual representation of the fuel map (EM2/3 or my EFISM) and where the engine is operating makes it harder (but not impossible) to identify and fix these problems.  My EFISM shows the fuel map, the engine operating point on the map, an Air/Fuel ratio indicator, as well as the values for each bar of the fuel map all on one screen at one time. Tracy’s EM2/3 provides similar information.   So if your engine hits a fuel bin and the A/F goes lean and you get a hesitation in the engine – then the responsible fuel bin probably needs adjustment.

 

Also, make certain that your EC2/3 manifold pressure sensors are reading manifold pressure.  If they have a leak then they will see ambient pressure and not manifold.  This generally will make the mixture way too rich at idle and low rpm, and then if you adjust the EC2/3 to compensate for this overly richness at idle it becomes too lean at high power settings. 

 

Ed

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Fontenot
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:10 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Initial Tuning at Low RPM - surging?

 

Tracy,

>>Large changes in the MAP table values can do that but you did not say at what point in the tuning procedure this turned up.  What have you done or tried so far?<<

I was not specifically tuning, and have not started that seriously. My question was a general one about why surging happens in something like my GEO. I'm hoping to tie the trike down on Sunday and really start tuning (if the weather holds out).

Thanks,

--
Mike

================================
Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting & Services LLC
Lakewood, Colorado
303 / 731-6645
mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com
================================

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