Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #42069
From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Change Interval
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:01:23 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Tracy,
 
I just don't want to destroy the gearbox because I didn't change the oil often enough.  Sounds like a plan. 
 
Mark S.

 
On 3/25/08, Tracy Crook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
Lynn's got it right in my view.  If your're looking for a number, I change between 50 and 70 hours using Synthetic.  I go for the 15W - 50 Mobile 1 cause it has more Zinc for the gears & bearings than the lighter weights.  Straight 40W  Redline would be even better but I can't get it at Walmart and I'm cheap.
 
BTW, I use a 4 qt sump even on the 20B.  I don't understand the appeal of great big oil pans.  Why carry all that extra weight?    Even if it means changing oil more often, I'd go for a smaller pan.   On a related subject, I get asked all the time about G-forces affecting oil pickup in the pan in an airplane and the need for a deeper, bigger pan.  My standard answer is that your grandmothers station wagon experiences more lateral G than your airplane ever will (unless you happen to be Sean Tucker). 
 
Sorry for the sermon, I just got asked that again <G>.
 
Tracy

 
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Greg Ward <gregw@onestopdesign.biz> wrote:
Hey Lynn and Mark;
So what would the consensus be as the only difference between my setup and Mark's is that I am using a fixed pitch prop?  Type of oil and frequency of change would be the question, especially with the redrive.  Tracy?
Greg
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:31 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Change Interval

 
Lynn,

Thanks for the great summary on oil.  I guess I should have provided a bit more information on my first posting.  This is a n/a 3-rotor with a 2.85:1.0 RD2-C gearbox and an electric c/s prop. Normal engine operating range is between 5200 and 7000 rpm with the vast majority of time spent in the 5000 - 6000 range.  I may briefly hit 7200-7300 rpm on takeoff roll, but that's only for a few seconds until the prop bites.  Cruise flight is usually around 5200 rpm.  The OMP has been removed and blocked off and I pre-mix a 50-50 blend of 2-stroke and MMO.  Living in Texas, my oil temps are high enough that I'm not too worried about moisture buildup.  The airplane is kept in a closed hangar and I try to fly at least an hour or two every weekend.  One of my concerns was the RD2-C.  Is it happy with annual oil changes?

Can you provide a source for the inline magnet for the psru? 

Thanks,

Mark S.


On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 1:59 AM, <Lehanover@aol.com> wrote:
There is little correlation between car engines and most aircraft engines. The problem with car engines is acid build up caused by low oil temps not boiling off the condensate during each use. The water combines with the sulphur compounds from combustion and forming sulfuric acid among a witches  brew of chemicals that are not associated with lubrication. The oil in the bottle or can comes with several chemicals that will neutralize some volume of acid. Once it does that, additional acid is free to do the bad mojo on the light alloys in the engine. Channels in the bearing faces. Blackend stripes around edges of bearings, rough surfaces on normally smooth die castings and so on. It is seldom that a car sits idle for more than a week.
It is the reverse for aircraft. A month off is not uncommon. The rotary with its hotter oil soon after startup has no problem boiling off water based products. It has minimal crankcase volume and on cool down sucks in only a small volume of humidified air, so less condensate than a piston aircraft engine. You should put a filter on your breather, because it does suck air into itself on cool down.
 
I have been gifted cars owned by girls that have never had the oil changed. Of course the engines were seized. The breath of Cesar problem. (Evidence of the first oil will always be there)
 
 
The object of changing the oil, is to dispose of the acid and renew the anti acid package in the oil. At the same time the other products of combustion that have slipped by the seals are removed as well. But the hot oil of the rotary is a big help so long as it runs long enough to get the oil hot. If you have a screw together filter housing in the drain from the reduction box containing a magnet to stop any steel being dropped off the gears, (no element, just the magnet) then an annual oil change sounds perfectly acceptable. The engine is under no strain at all and specialty oils are of little value. Use whatever is best for the gear box. A car racing oil for its extra anti acid package and extra zink anti scuff compounds would be better. And a separate oil supply for the rotors of 2 cycle oil would keep the housings clean and the seals free in their grooves.
 
If you use the Oil metering pump, the crank case oil will be dropped into the rotor housings. Regular street oil resists burning and leaves behind unburned crap from the multi grade plastics, in the housings, fouling the apex seals. If you use the OMP, stick to straight wt. oils. Racing oils make it worse as they resist burning or even breakdown to higher temps. Synthetics don't burn at all and are a bad choice for OMP use. You can leave the OMP on and cut into the passage in the front cover anywhere its handy and install a dash 3 fitting and run 2 cycle oil from a bottle on the fire wall. Plug the oil passage at the face where it connects with the front iron. Now you can run any crank case oil and not worry about the apex seals.
 
I used Redline synthetic 40 wt. racing oil in the crank case of the race car. The top oil was Redline synthetic racing 2 cycle oil (for dirt bikes) and never a failure. No wear on apex seals (soft carbon). I changed oil every 4 races, about 8 hours or a bit less. The pretty green oil  (not red?) would be black after 4 weekends. Engine was used between 7,500 and 9,600 RPM. Oil pressure is 100 pounds. oil temp is 180 to 190 (hot day) and water 160 -180- (hot day) If we could not get to 160 we put the thermostat in it.
 
Lynn E. Hanover    
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 3/25/2008 12:10:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bbradburry@bellsouth.net writes:

So 15K at an average of 150 MPH would be 100 hrs…Most cars change at 3K to 7K I think…7.5K would get you about 50 hours..??

There is no stop and go to build up water and stuff.  I bet you could get 100 hours on 12 quarts of Mobil 1 with no adverse effects.

What do you think, Lynn?

 

Bill B 





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