Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #39082
From: George Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Air/fuel flow
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:58:08 +1000
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Thanks Richard!
George ( down under)
George,
 
Mikuni is listing the 36mm for 50hp max. The 38 is all the same except for 1mm more in the throat.
Now, I have to make shure I do or do not have the float bowl issue.
 
Richard Sohn
N2071U
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 7:25 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Air/fuel flow

 Thanks Ed,
I just thought I'd ask - just in case!
If I find out I will let you and everyone else know!
George
George, nothing magic about 120 MPH (unless you're in free fall {:>)).  As you noted the airflow inside a carb can  vary greatly.  176 fps was just a wag that I felt comfortable with using as an example of how to find the size opening IF you desired that air velocity at that CFM flow rate..
 
Also even if you don't have a venture like in a carb, you will still reach a choke velocity - it will just be at a bit higher rate of flow.
 
You can have you cake one of two ways, you can decide on what velocity you want at a certain volume flow (CFM) and then size the opening to get that velocity OR you can pick a carb with a specific opening and see what velocity that gives you.  As long as you are below choke velocity you are probably  OK.  As you noted larger openings as on race cars can result in less velocity, but since they are bigger, you still get a lot air mass.  Pros and Cons and compromise is the name of the game.  If I had the answers, I'd be a multimillionaire consultant to  NASCAR racing teams {:>))
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Air/fuel flow

Kelly,
That's interesting - is Ed trying to tell me something?
Just joking, I did know that but didn't relate the two.
George ( down under)
George,
    Not Ed and not great at math but from my skydiving days the figure
of 176 feet per sec (approx 120 mph) is called terminal velocity for the
average human body in a flat stable freefall position........Just a bit of
trivia.........
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold




-------------- Original message from "George Lendich" <lendich@optusnet.com.au>: --------------

 
Ed,
 I would like to clarify another point and that is your velocity figure of 120 mph.
 
I will explain:-
 
I have studied carb sites for snippets of information ( they don't give much away), however one did say that carb choke speeds  are usually 450' per second and racing cars 125' per second.
 
I assume the racing car inlet speeds are lower because the throttle is wide open with massive sized inlets, therefore lower vacuum signal.
 
Your calculations use 176' per second. Can you clarify where you acquired that figure from as a higher figure would reduce the inlet area calculations.
 
The carb I am looking at is the Revmaster, they currently only have 40mm carbs available due to slow demand of the 42/44mm. One good thing is that the carb operates without a need of venturi, however the vacuum signal must be weaker ( because of this)coupled with a weaker signal because of the shape of the rotor face.
 
At the very least the lack of venturi also eliminates the choke potential. Some carbs have a 44mm inlet but are choked to 36mm which would increase inlet speed (good), but as you say, may move into the choke restriction area (bad).
 
A weaker signal would also effect the idle mixture as this is driven by vacuum rather than air flow, however I guess this can be adjusted manually. Should be plenty of vacuum at idle with the slide closed.
 
I have asked Revmaster for air flow and velocity figures, but these may be derived from piston engine type figures.
 
If you or Lynn could comment on this it would be greatly appreciated.
 
Also my research indicates that flow air/ fuel mix richens at higher RPM and altitude. I can't remember why at higher RPM - mind block, however for altitude it is because fuel flow is driven by air flow and even though the density of the air is lower ( at altitude) the flow remains the same - therefore richer mixture. Revmaster says their needle design is self leaning ( to a degree) because of design. I assume because the air density directly affects the suction to the rear side of the flat ground needle, ( this provides the low pressure area rather than the venturi) therefore with reduced density you have reduced suction and reduced fuel and leaner mixture. However I will clarify that when next we talk.
I find this all very interesting!
George ( down under)
 
 
 
Well I'll be Ed,
2.4137sq" = (.877x.877xPi = 2.416), therefore .877 Radius or 1.754 Dia or 44.55 mm for the carb opening.
I'm working on the rest!
George ( down under)
 
For inlet, you take the CFM and you need one other factor - what velocity do you want through your inlet?  Lets say you want a higher velocity of around 176 feet/sec (120 MPH)  then we know that Volume = Area * length.  If were want 176 feet/sec velocity from 176 CFM air flow then coverting CFM to cubic feet per second were have 176Ft^3/min / 60 Second/Minute = 29.333 Ft^3/ Second


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