Hi Bob,

I've been sort of worried about that.  Do you recollect how much time
you got on a set of plugs with MSD and was this with leaded gas?  It
seems possible that it would at least delay SAG for a while.

Bob W.


On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:56:38 -0400
bmears9413@aol.com wrote:

> SAG can appear any where apparently. We ran a MSD system on our race care and 
still ran into the problem. The problem ended when we switched to alcohol, but 
thats not a fix for airplanes!
> 
> Bob Mears
> Supermarine spitfire
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael LaFleur <>mike.lafleur@sbcglobal.net>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <>flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:58 am
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe LS1 coils will do the trick. There are people out there flying with 
those, tight?
> 
> Has anyone had SAG with LS1 coils?
> 
> Mike LaFleur
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ed Anderson <>eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <>flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:12:48 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
> 
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
>  
> 
> Considering total investment, I agree $400 - for a reliable ignition system is 
not out of line.  Besides the stock Mazda ignition must weigh close to 10 lbs 
total  for trailing and leading modules - so save some weight besides.  
> 
>  
> 
> While I am unaware of anybody suffering a mishap from SAG - as Lynn points out 
reducing power, reduces compression chamber pressure, reduces misfire - but, it 
can certainly be disconcerting - and perhaps lead you to incorrect conclusions 
about what is wrong.  I know I spent hours when first encountering SAG wondering 
what was wrong with my injectors - of course, it wasn't the injectors it was the 
plugs.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Guess, I'm going to have to break down and install the LS1 components I have 
in the workshop.  Don't know if the LS1 coils will provide any better 
anti-fouling spark than stock but at least then I could plug in the LS1 Blaster 
coils.
> 
>  
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: Michael LaFleur 
> 
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft 
> 
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:15 PM
> 
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't consider NOT having a high energy ignition system over changing 
plugs. I'm sure that SAG is result from the combination of the coil and plugs 
used.
> 
> It's cheap insurance. Why risk it?
> 
> Mike LaFleur
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ed Anderson <>eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <>flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2007 8:09:38 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
> 
> 
> Hi Bobby, based on what Lynn has said and my understanding of what is 
happening with lead fouling, I agree.  However, while they produce 3 times the 
energy they also cost about 3 times as much as a stock LS1 coil - these Blaster 
coils cost $98.56 each.  Which would bring 4 to around $400.00.
> 
>  
> 
> Spark plugs cost around $7.00 x4 = $28 for a set $400/28 = 14 changes of plugs 
X 25 (avg hours) = 357 hours of flying with current system before cost of plugs 
= cost of Blaster LS1 coils {:>)
> 
>  
> 
> However, if I were just now starting out with a rotary conversion, I would 
certainly consider it.  I do have a complete installation of regular LS1 coils 
and connectors sitting in my workshop.  Just need to get them installed and the 
EC2 converted - I'll have to check, but I presume these LS1 coils are a 
plug-plug replacement, which would mean they would be easy to exchange for the 
stock LS1 coils.
> 
>  
> 
> Now that I think further about it, the piece of mind from not encountering SAG 
might well be worth the price alone!  Good suggestion!
> 
>  
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: Bobby J. Hughes 
> 
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft 
> 
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:19 PM
> 
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ed,
> 
>  
> 
> I wish you would test 4 of these. :) If Lynn is correct about high power spark 
then these might be the ultimate solution. Looks like 3 time the energy of our 
standard LS1 coils. 
> 
>  
> 
> http://www.msdignition.com/coil_blaster_19_8245.htm
> 
>  
> 
> Bobby
> 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf 
Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:07 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is somebody who pretty much sums up what my research has turned up on 
Lead solvents - the only one I found was nitric acid - which I will pass on {:>)
> 
> .
> 
>  
> 
> 
> There really is no lead solvent. Any chemical that will desolve lead will 
likely disolve YOU. Years ago, before people knew better, shooters used mercury. 
This amalgamated with the lead, and the material could be brushed out. The only 
problem: mercurey will make you crazy, then dead!!
> 
> A good non dangerous to you, and non damaging to the bore cleaner is the Lewis 
or Hopies lead remover kit. You can also buy a "lead remover cloth" at most gun 
shops. Cut this into patches and run them down the bore.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Ed
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: Jeff Owen 
> 
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft 
> 
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:47 PM
> 
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ed,
> 
>  
> 
> There is an electro-chemical process shooters use to remove lead from a gun 
barrel which might work if this is an elemental lead deposit.  Take a look at: 
http://www.outers-guncare.com/products/chemicals/foul_out_system.aspx 
> 
>  
> 
> Jeff Owen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf 
Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:11 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Spark Plug Cleaning
> 
> 
> 
> Getting around to see what can be done about the lead fouling sparkplugs  
causing the infamous "SAG".  1st experiment was to place the used spark plugs in 
a 30% solution of Hydrogen Peroxide.  I did that and place the plugs and 
solution in an ultrasonic cleaner, turned it on and left it on for 1 hour.
> 
>  
> 
> It appeared to clean everything off the plug - but, the lead.  So far the only 
chemical my research has indicated would dissolved metallic lead is Nitric 
Acid.  Nope, not going to try that, I'll stick with buying new plugs.
> 
>  
> 
> But, thought I would let folks know of the results.  I was really hoping the 
ultrasonic vibration would shake the lead crystals off the ceramic cone of the 
plug - but either the idea is flawed or the small jewelry cleaning size 
ultrasonic generator is simply not powerful enough.
> 
>  
> 
> Ed
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Ed Anderson
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.
> 


-- 
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/

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