X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.6] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.9) with ESMTP id 2096722 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:48:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.6; envelope-from=BMears9413@aol.com Received: from BMears9413@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id q.bd1.1391011e (52869) for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-md19 (webmail-md19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.137]) by cia-m06.mx.aol.com (v115.17) with ESMTP id MAILCIAM065-ce85466d8aa32db; Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:47:15 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:47:15 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bmears9413@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8C97A67AF050182_1368_150_webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 27618 Received: from 65.182.71.8 by webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.137) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:47:15 -0400 Message-Id: <8C97A67AF050182-1368-B4@webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MB_8C97A67AF050182_1368_150_webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I dont recall now. that was 20 years ago for me. We just started running new= plugs each race. Bob Mears -----Original Message----- From: Bob White To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 8:37 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning Hi Bob, I've been sort of worried about that. Do you recollect how much time ou got on a set of plugs with MSD and was this with leaded gas? It eems possible that it would at least delay SAG for a while. Bob W. n Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:56:38 -0400 mears9413@aol.com wrote: > SAG can appear any where apparently. We ran a MSD system on our race care=20= and=20 till ran into the problem. The problem ended when we switched to alcohol, bu= t=20 hats not a fix for airplanes! =20 Bob Mears Supermarine spitfire =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Michael LaFleur To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:58 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning =20 =20 =20 =20 Maybe LS1 coils will do the trick. There are people out there flying with=20 hose, tight? =20 Has anyone had SAG with LS1 coils? =20 Mike LaFleur =20 =20 ----- Original Message ---- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:12:48 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning =20 =20 Hi Mike, =20 =C2=A0 =20 Considering total investment, I agree $400 - for a reliable ignition system= is=20 ot out of line.=C2=A0 Besides the stock Mazda ignition must weigh close to 1= 0 lbs=20 otal =C2=A0for trailing and leading modules - so save some weight besides.= =C2=A0=20 =20 =C2=A0 =20 While I am unaware of anybody suffering a mishap from SAG - as Lynn points=20= out=20 educing power, reduces compression chamber pressure, reduces misfire - but,=20= it=20 an certainly be disconcerting - and perhaps lead you to incorrect conclusion= s=20 bout what is wrong.=C2=A0 I know I spent hours when first encountering SAG w= ondering=20 hat was wrong with my injectors - of course, it wasn't the injectors it was=20= the=20 lugs. =20 =C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 Guess, I'm going to have to break down and install the LS1 components I hav= e=20 n the workshop.=C2=A0 Don't know if the LS1 coils will provide any better=20 nti-fouling spark than stock but at least then I could plug in the LS1 Blast= er=20 oils. =20 =C2=A0 =20 Ed =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 =20 From: Michael LaFleur=20 =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 =20 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:15 PM =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I wouldn't consider NOT having a high energy ignition system over changing=20 lugs. I'm sure that SAG is result from the combination of the coil and plugs= =20 sed. =20 It's cheap insurance. Why risk it? =20 Mike LaFleur =20 =20 ----- Original Message ---- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2007 8:09:38 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning =20 =20 Hi Bobby, based on what Lynn has said and my understanding of what is=20 appening with lead fouling, I agree.=C2=A0 However, while they produce 3 tim= es the=20 nergy they also cost about 3 times as much as a stock LS1 coil - these Blast= er=20 oils=C2=A0cost $98.56 each.=C2=A0 Which would bring 4 to around $400.00. =20 =C2=A0 =20 Spark plugs cost around $7.00 x4 =3D $28 for a set $400/28 =3D 14 changes o= f plugs=20 25 (avg hours) =3D 357 hours of flying with current system before cost of p= lugs=20 cost of Blaster LS1 coils {:>) =20 =C2=A0 =20 However, if I were just now starting out with a rotary conversion, I would=20 ertainly consider it.=C2=A0 I do have a complete installation of regular LS1= coils=20 nd=C2=A0connectors sitting in my workshop.=C2=A0 Just need to get them insta= lled and the=20 C2 converted=C2=A0- I'll have to check, but I presume these LS1 coils are a=20 lug-plug replacement, which would mean they would be easy to exchange for th= e=20 tock LS1 coils. =20 =C2=A0 =20 Now that I think further about it, the piece of mind from not encountering=20= SAG=20 ight well be worth the price alone!=C2=A0 Good suggestion! =20 =C2=A0 =20 Ed =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 =20 From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 =20 Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:19 PM =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning =20 =20 =20 =20 Ed, =20 =C2=A0 =20 I wish you would test 4 of these. :)=C2=A0If Lynn is correct about high pow= er spark=20 hen these might be=C2=A0the ultimate solution. Looks like 3 time the energy=20= of our=20 tandard LS1 coils.=20 =20 =C2=A0 =20 http://www.msdignition.com/coil_blaster_19_8245.htm =20 =C2=A0 =20 Bobby =20 =20 =C2=A0 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf=20 f Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Here is somebody who pretty much sums up what my research has turned up on=20 ead solvents - the only one I found was nitric acid - which I will pass on {= :>) =20 . =20 =C2=A0 =20 =20 There really is no lead solvent. Any chemical that will desolve lead will=20 ikely disolve YOU. Years ago, before people knew better, shooters used mercu= ry.=20 his amalgamated with the lead, and the material could be brushed out. The on= ly=20 roblem: mercurey will make you crazy, then dead!! =20 A good non dangerous to you, and non damaging to the bore cleaner is the Le= wis=20 r Hopies lead remover kit. You can also buy a "lead remover cloth" at most g= un=20 hops. Cut this into patches and run them down the bore. =20 =C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 Ed =20 =C2=A0 =20 =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 =20 From: Jeff Owen=20 =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 =20 Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:47 PM =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning =20 =20 =20 =20 Ed, =20 =C2=A0 =20 There is an electro-chemical process shooters use to remove lead from a gun= =20 arrel which might work if this is an elemental lead deposit.=C2=A0 Take a lo= ok at:=20 ttp://www.outers-guncare.com/products/chemicals/foul_out_system.aspx=C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 Jeff Owen =20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf=20 f Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:11 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Spark Plug Cleaning =20 =20 =20 Getting around to see what can be done about the lead fouling sparkplugs= =C2=A0=20 ausing the infamous "SAG".=C2=A0 1st experiment was to place the used spark=20= plugs in=20 30% solution of Hydrogen Peroxide.=C2=A0 I did that and place the plugs and= =20 olution in an ultrasonic cleaner, turned it on and left it on for 1 hour. =20 =C2=A0 =20 It appeared to clean everything off the plug - but, the lead.=C2=A0 So far=20= the only=20 hemical my research has indicated would dissolved metallic lead is Nitric=20 cid.=C2=A0 Nope, not going to try that, I'll stick with buying new plugs. =20 =C2=A0 =20 But, thought I would let folks know of the results.=C2=A0 I was really hopi= ng the=20 ltrasonic vibration would shake the lead crystals off the ceramic cone of th= e=20 lug - but either the idea is flawed or the small jewelry cleaning size=20 ltrasonic generator is simply not powerful enough. =20 =C2=A0 =20 Ed =20 =C2=A0 =20 =C2=A0 =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free fro= m=20 OL at AOL.com. =20 -=20 93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com .8 Hours Total Time and holding ables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ -- omepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ rchive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from= AOL at AOL.com. ----------MB_8C97A67AF050182_1368_150_webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
I dont recall now. that was 20 years ago for me. We just started runnin= g new plugs each race.
=C2=A0
Bob Mears


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob White
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 8:37 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning

Hi Bob,

I've been sort of worried about that.  Do you recollect how much time
you got on a set of plugs with MSD and was this with leaded gas?  It
seems possible that it would at least delay SAG for a while.

Bob W.


On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:56:38 -0400
bmears9413@aol.com wrote:

> SAG can appear any where apparently. We ran a MSD system on our race ca=
re and=20
still ran into the problem. The problem ended when we switched to alcohol, b=
ut=20
thats not a fix for airplanes!
>=20
> Bob Mears
> Supermarine spitfire
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael LaFleur <mi=
ke.lafleur@sbcglobal.net>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:58 am
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Maybe LS1 coils will do the trick. There are people out there flying wi=
th=20
those, tight?
>=20
> Has anyone had SAG with LS1 coils?
>=20
> Mike LaFleur
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ed Anderson <eanders=
on@carolina.rr.com>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:12:48 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
>=20
>=20
> Hi Mike,
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Considering total investment, I agree $400 - for a reliable ignition sy=
stem is=20
not out of line.=C2=A0 Besides the stock Mazda ignition must weigh close to=20=
10 lbs=20
total =C2=A0for trailing and leading modules - so save some weight besides.=
=C2=A0=20
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> While I am unaware of anybody suffering a mishap from SAG - as Lynn poi=
nts out=20
reducing power, reduces compression chamber pressure, reduces misfire - but,=
 it=20
can certainly be disconcerting - and perhaps lead you to incorrect conclusio=
ns=20
about what is wrong.=C2=A0 I know I spent hours when first encountering SAG=20=
wondering=20
what was wrong with my injectors - of course, it wasn't the injectors it was=
 the=20
plugs.
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Guess, I'm going to have to break down and install the LS1 components I=
 have=20
in the workshop.=C2=A0 Don't know if the LS1 coils will provide any better=20
anti-fouling spark than stock but at least then I could plug in the LS1 Blas=
ter=20
coils.
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Ed
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
>=20
> From: Michael LaFleur=20
>=20
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
>=20
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 11:15 PM
>=20
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I wouldn't consider NOT having a high energy ignition system over chang=
ing=20
plugs. I'm sure that SAG is result from the combination of the coil and plug=
s=20
used.
>=20
> It's cheap insurance. Why risk it?
>=20
> Mike LaFleur
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ed Anderson <eanders=
on@carolina.rr.com>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2007 8:09:38 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
>=20
>=20
> Hi Bobby, based on what Lynn has said and my understanding of what is=20
happening with lead fouling, I agree.=C2=A0 However, while they produce 3 ti=
mes the=20
energy they also cost about 3 times as much as a stock LS1 coil - these Blas=
ter=20
coils=C2=A0cost $98.56 each.=C2=A0 Which would bring 4 to around $400.00.
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Spark plugs cost around $7.00 x4 =3D $28 for a set $400/28 =3D 14 chang=
es of plugs=20
X 25 (avg hours) =3D 357 hours of flying with current system before cost of=20=
plugs=20
=3D cost of Blaster LS1 coils {:>)
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> However, if I were just now starting out with a rotary conversion, I wo=
uld=20
certainly consider it.=C2=A0 I do have a complete installation of regular LS=
1 coils=20
and=C2=A0connectors sitting in my workshop.=C2=A0 Just need to get them inst=
alled and the=20
EC2 converted=C2=A0- I'll have to check, but I presume these LS1 coils are a=
=20
plug-plug replacement, which would mean they would be easy to exchange for t=
he=20
stock LS1 coils.
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Now that I think further about it, the piece of mind from not encounter=
ing SAG=20
might well be worth the price alone!=C2=A0 Good suggestion!
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Ed
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
>=20
> From: Bobby J. Hughes=20
>=20
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
>=20
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 10:19 PM
>=20
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Ed,
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> I wish you would test 4 of these. :)=C2=A0If Lynn is correct about high=
 power spark=20
then these might be=C2=A0the ultimate solution. Looks like 3 time the energy=
 of our=20
standard LS1 coils.=20
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> http://www.msdignition.com/coil_blaster_19_8245.htm
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Bobby
>=20
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf=20
Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 7:07 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Here is somebody who pretty much sums up what my research has turned up=
 on=20
Lead solvents - the only one I found was nitric acid - which I will pass on=20=
{:>)
>=20
> .
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
>=20
> There really is no lead solvent. Any chemical that will desolve lead wi=
ll=20
likely disolve YOU. Years ago, before people knew better, shooters used merc=
ury.=20
This amalgamated with the lead, and the material could be brushed out. The o=
nly=20
problem: mercurey will make you crazy, then dead!!
>=20
> A good non dangerous to you, and non damaging to the bore cleaner is th=
e Lewis=20
or Hopies lead remover kit. You can also buy a "lead remover cloth" at most=20=
gun=20
shops. Cut this into patches and run them down the bore.
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Ed
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
>=20
> From: Jeff Owen=20
>=20
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
>=20
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:47 PM
>=20
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Spark Plug Cleaning
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Ed,
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> There is an electro-chemical process shooters use to remove lead from a=
 gun=20
barrel which might work if this is an elemental lead deposit.=C2=A0 Take a l=
ook at:=20
http://www.outers-guncare.com/products/chemicals/foul_=
out_system.aspx=C2=A0
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Jeff Owen
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf=20
Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 1:11 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Spark Plug Cleaning
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Getting around to see what can be done about the lead fouling sparkplug=
s=C2=A0=20
causing the infamous "SAG".=C2=A0 1st experiment was to place the used spark=
 plugs in=20
a 30% solution of Hydrogen Peroxide.=C2=A0 I did that and place the plugs an=
d=20
solution in an ultrasonic cleaner, turned it on and left it on for 1 hour.
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> It appeared to clean everything off the plug - but, the lead.=C2=A0 So=20=
far the only=20
chemical my research has indicated would dissolved metallic lead is Nitric=20
Acid.=C2=A0 Nope, not going to try that, I'll stick with buying new plugs.
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> But, thought I would let folks know of the results.=C2=A0 I was really=20=
hoping the=20
ultrasonic vibration would shake the lead crystals off the ceramic cone of t=
he=20
plug - but either the idea is flawed or the small jewelry cleaning size=20
ultrasonic generator is simply not powerful enough.
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Ed
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> =C2=A0
>=20
> Ed Anderson
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com<=
/A>
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> http:=
//www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________________________________=
_
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free=
 from=20
AOL at AOL.com.
>=20


--=20
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/

--
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