----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:41
AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: installed cost
of rotary
Rusty, John Dyke keeps telling us builders that a rotary
installation
will cost more than a Lycoming. You're the only person I
know that has
written checks for both in such a short time, and
recently. So all
told, how would you compare the cost? How
about if you had to figure in
your time at shop rates?
Hi Ernest,
This is indeed a
complicated question, and not something that can be answered
universally. Will a rotary
cost more to install? It can if you want it to (Powersport, Mistral),
but for most, it will not cost more initially. Not only are there multiple option that can change
the cost of the package, but even "cost" itself means something different to
everyone.
One primary variable is resale. If
you had two identical RV-8's, except for the engine, the one with the new
Lyclone would sell for about $90k, and the new rotary would sell for maybe
$60-70k, and only to a very limited market. Since I seem to go
through projects pretty quickly, I have to consider this as part of
the cost of the engine choice. Others, Ed for example, are perfectly
content to own one airplane forever, so it's not fair to count resale in his
case. Some plane have terrible resale anyway, so maybe the engine
won't make that much difference. Bottom line is that you have to look at
the market for your particularly plane, and then decide if it even matters.
Another variable is whether you look
at only the initial cost, or total cost of the time you own the
plane. How many people have gone through several engines
before a new Lyclone would even need a top overhaul? How much money have
most folks spent reworking their installation, different props, redrives,
cooling systems, intakes, etc. I think you have to look at
the overall ownership, not just installed cost.
Barry brought up some valid points
about extra costs for the Lyclones. It ain't just the engine. My
RV-8 engine was $21,600 including shipping, customs, etc. The FWF kit
contains everything (and I DO mean everything) FWF except the mount, prop, and
spinner. In my case, this was about $4300, which included a
new prop governor. The Blended airfoil Hartzell is
$5800. That's a total of $31,700. My best guess is that a
new Renesis, with a CS prop would cost at least $20k, and that's only the
first engine :-) Your definition of "cost", and your spin on the
calculations will determine whether this is a good value for you
:-)
I do believe Barry overstated the
difficulty of installing the Lycoming a bit though, particularly for something
as refined as the Van's RV kits. I would bet I can do the total
engine install on the RV-8 in 150 hours. A rotary would be at least 1500
hours. I don't tend to count the cost of my time, but if I did, the
rotary wouldn't look so hot :-)
To answer the question directly, I would
estimate that I spent somewhere between $15k to $20k on the RV-3
engine project. I made Rich promise never to tell me what all
the receipts add up to :-) Overall, I probably lost about $10k on
the whole RV-3 project.
To make a long answer even longer, I
don't regret the RV-3 rotary project at all. It was something I've
wanted to do for as long as I've been building planes, and the idea
wasn't going way on it's own. Fortunately, I put a Lycoming in the
original RV-8, so I made more than enough money when it sold to cover the
loss on the RV-3. Since RV-3's have such a low resale anyway, it
was a pretty good choice for the experiment. I was pretty tempted
to put a rotary in the RV-8, but in the end, I think the Lyclone is a better
choice "for me".
A final note- the question was about
money, NOT which engine is better. If you feel the rotary is that
much better than a Lycoming, then you can rationalize any cost you
want. Also note that "alternate engine" can be substituted
for "rotary" for this entire message.
Cheers,
Rusty (probably could have mounted my
Lyclone in the time it took to type this
<g>)