X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 18:11:25 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtpauth20.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net ([64.202.165.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0) with SMTP id 5953155 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Dec 2012 16:43:03 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.202.165.36; envelope-from=jayph@fastairplane.net Received: (qmail 14501 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2012 21:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (67.61.35.228) by smtpauth20.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.36) with ESMTP; 16 Dec 2012 21:42:28 -0000 From: "Jay Phillips" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Getting back into the air X-Original-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 14:42:23 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <000f01cddbd6$3c49b480$b4dd1d80$@fastairplane.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CDDB9B.8FEC6320" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQHyBASwxiCckLBgja5PIU48cZbmYZfToA+Q This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CDDB9B.8FEC6320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A long time ago in a land far, far away we purchased a piece of land = adjacent to a private, paved, 2400=E2=80=99 x 36=E2=80=99 runway at = 1700=E2=80=99 elevation. It was our intention to build a hangar home on = the land. At the time I had a Piper Dakota, and except on the rare day = when there were strong gusty crosswinds, the plane and I did just fine = on that runway. =20 Then I sold the Dakota and bought a Legacy. My transition instructor = told me =E2=80=9Cyou will never land this Legacy on that 2400=E2=80=99 = runway=E2=80=9D. Looking at the Legacy=E2=80=99s specs I believed that = with time and experience I would be able to land on that runway. Indeed = I have put the Legacy down using only 1700=E2=80=99 of a 3000=E2=80=99 = runway, although was near sea level. In order to do that I had to reduce = my approach speed, touch down right on the numbers, and brake = aggressively =E2=80=93 essentially a maximum (or near maximum) = performance landing. =20 One day it occurred to me that if I located on a runway where every = takeoff and landing was at or near maximum performance it was just a = matter of time until something wasn=E2=80=99t quite right and I had some = big trouble. Essentially I would be accepting as standard a situation = where I had little to no safety margin in my daily operation. =20 So I realized I had to either sell the Legacy and get something more = appropriate for that runway, keep the Legacy at the larger, nearby = public airport, or live somewhere else. I still have the Legacy. The = land is for sale. And the instructor was correct =E2=80=93 I will never = land the Legacy on that runway. =20 Never give up your safety margins unless you have a really good reason. =20 Jay Phillips =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = vtailjeff@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:16 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Getting back into the air =20 John, =20 Great questions.=20 =20 First-- how much does your aircraft weigh empty? IVP's are heavier than = IV's, naturally and have higher landing speeds.=20 =20 Speaking from my experience and LOBO's flight training recommendations, = 3000 feet of level paved runway in good dry condition with no obstacles = in the approach/departure path is the absolute minimum for an = experienced LIVP pilot with a proven aircraft.=20 =20 My LIVP would typically use 2000 feet to get off the ground and 2000 = feet of stopping distance on the ground. =20 For landing, on a 3000 foot runway with 2000 feet to stop means = obviously you must be very good at putting the aircraft exactly on the = aimpoint. The IVP typically crosses the threshold at 100 KIAS. With no = wind at sea level that is approximately 100 KTAS and 100 KGS. If you are = spotting a touchdown 500 feet down the runway it means you have about = 3.2 seconds from threshold to touchdown. If you are a little fast or a = little high and over shoot your touchdown spot you are chewing up runway = at about 150 feet per second. So you have three seconds from passing = that chosen spot to the point that if you put it on the runway you will = not be able to stop before going off the end. Rain, turbulence, etc. = Forget it.=20 =20 For folks in the Phase I period I urge you to use 5000 feet or more of = runway. You have spent many years and thousands of dollars building it = now is not the time to get cheap. When you are at that 5000 foot runway = put a marker at 3000 feet and see how many times you go past it on = landing or taking off. I had a client years ago that wanted to use a = 2500 foot runway. We trained at a 5000 foot runway with a midfield = taxiway. He could never get it stopped in 2500 feet. Never. Never, = Never.=20 =20 BTW I had this same conversation six months ago with Fairley Gooch, a = retired Delta captain/ former military pilot. He chose to ignore my = advice and LOBO's advice. May he rest in peace. =20 Best regards, =20 Jeff =20 The advice I=E2=80=99m looking for centers around the fact that our = runway is 3,000 feet long, certainly more than adequate for this = airplane but not by a lot. The first flight after reinstallation will = be a test flight with several different concerns -----Original Message----- From: John Barrett To: lml Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:56 pm Subject: [LML] Getting back into the air My Lancair IVP after 55 hours of total flight time is having an engine = overhaul (it was a =E2=80=9Cnew engine=E2=80=9D to start with from = Performance Engines =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll tell that story later) and I = expect to get the engine back from Barrett in Tulsa in January or early = February. It will take a while to get the engine back on =E2=80=93 all = the other upgrades and fixes completed, taxi tests etc etc and so I = expect to be ready to get airborne again in the spring or early summer. =20 I have about 60 hours of personal IVP time =E2=80=93 50 of them in my = airplane. I am hangared at 0S9, Port Townsend International Airport in = Washington State. =20 =20 The advice I=E2=80=99m looking for centers around the fact that our = runway is 3,000 feet long, certainly more than adequate for this = airplane but not by a lot. The first flight after reinstallation will = be a test flight with several different concerns. =20 =20 1. Although I have much confidence in my decision to have Barrett = overhaul the engine, it=E2=80=99s still a break in flight and carries = more risk than normal for that first takeoff. 2. Because I am still a low time LIV driver and I will have had = almost 6 months of rust developing in my IVP skills, that will be a = factor 3. Because the airport environment is not conducive to emergency = landing after takeoff (trees and salt water at both ends) engine = problems during this takeoff would be problematic. =20 Port Angeles is about 6 or 7 minutes away in the IVP and has a nice long = and wide runway, so the plan is to head directly there and perform = engine break in over head that airport followed by several landings = there prior to returning to home field. There is another runway at = Sequim midway between that is 4,000 ft long - it=E2=80=99s narrow but = could be a satisfactory emergency strip if necessary. =20 Is there advice other than hiring another test pilot and/or buying time = in someone else=E2=80=99s IVP that I should be planning for to lower = risks in this upcoming event? Any other concerns I should be thinking = about I haven=E2=80=99t mentioned? =20 =20 =20 Regards, =20 John Barrett, CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 =20 www.carbinge.com =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CDDB9B.8FEC6320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A long time ago in a land far, far away we purchased a piece of land = adjacent to a private, paved, 2400=E2=80=99 x 36=E2=80=99 runway at = 1700=E2=80=99 elevation. It was our intention to build a hangar home on = the land. At the time I had a Piper Dakota, and except on the rare day = when there were strong gusty crosswinds, the plane and I did just fine = on that runway.

 

Then I sold the Dakota and bought a Legacy. My transition instructor = told me =E2=80=9Cyou will never land this Legacy on that 2400=E2=80=99 = runway=E2=80=9D. Looking at the Legacy=E2=80=99s specs I believed that = with time and experience I would be able to land on that runway. Indeed = I have put the Legacy down using only 1700=E2=80=99 of a 3000=E2=80=99 = runway, although was near sea level. In order to do that I had to reduce = my approach speed, touch down right on the numbers, and brake = aggressively =E2=80=93 essentially a maximum (or near maximum) = performance landing.

 

One day it occurred to me that if I located on a runway where every = takeoff and landing was at or near maximum performance it was just a = matter of time until something wasn=E2=80=99t quite right and I had some = big trouble. Essentially I would be accepting as standard a situation = where I had little to no safety margin in my daily = operation.

 

So I realized I had to either sell the Legacy and get something more = appropriate for that runway, keep the Legacy at the larger, nearby = public airport, or live somewhere else. I still have the Legacy. The = land is for sale. And the instructor was correct =E2=80=93 I will never = land the Legacy on that runway.

 

Never give up your safety margins unless you have a really good = reason.

 

Jay Phillips

 

From:= = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = vtailjeff@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:16 = AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = Getting back into the air

 

J= ohn,

&= nbsp;

G= reat questions.

&= nbsp;

F= irst-- how much does your aircraft weigh empty? IVP's are heavier than = IV's, naturally and have higher landing speeds. =

&= nbsp;

S= peaking from my experience and LOBO's flight training recommendations, = 3000 feet of level paved runway in good dry condition with no = obstacles in the approach/departure path  is the absolute = minimum for an experienced LIVP pilot with a proven aircraft. =

&= nbsp;

M= y LIVP would typically use 2000 feet to get off the ground and 2000 feet = of stopping distance on the ground.

&= nbsp;

F= or landing, on a 3000 foot runway with 2000 feet to stop means obviously = you must be very good at putting the aircraft exactly on the aimpoint. = The IVP typically crosses the threshold at 100 KIAS. With no wind at sea = level that is approximately 100 KTAS and 100 KGS. If you are spotting a = touchdown 500 feet down the runway it means you have about 3.2 seconds = from threshold to touchdown. If you are a little fast or a little high = and over shoot your touchdown spot you are chewing up runway at about = 150 feet per second. So you have three seconds from passing that chosen = spot to the point that if you put it on the runway you will not be able = to stop before going off the end. Rain, turbulence, etc. Forget it. =

&= nbsp;

F= or folks in the Phase I period I urge you to use 5000 feet or more of = runway. You have spent many years and thousands of dollars building it = now is not the time to get cheap. When you are at that 5000 foot runway = put a marker at 3000 feet and see how many times you go past it on = landing or taking off. I had a client years ago that wanted to use a = 2500 foot runway. We trained at a 5000 foot runway with a midfield = taxiway. He could never get it stopped in 2500 feet. Never. Never, = Never.

&= nbsp;

B= TW I had this same conversation six months ago with Fairley Gooch, = a retired Delta captain/ former military pilot. He chose to ignore = my advice and LOBO's advice. May he rest in = peace.

&= nbsp;

B= est regards,

&= nbsp;

J= eff

&= nbsp;

T= he advice I=E2=80=99m looking for centers around the fact that our = runway is 3,000 feet long, certainly more than adequate for this = airplane but not by a lot.  The first flight after reinstallation = will be a test flight with several different = concerns

-= ----Original Message-----
From: John Barrett <jbarrett@carbinge.com>
To= : lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Se= nt: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:56 pm
Subject: [LML] Getting back into the = air

M= y Lancair IVP after 55 hours of total flight time is having an engine = overhaul (it was a =E2=80=9Cnew engine=E2=80=9D to start with from = Performance Engines =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll tell that story later) and I = expect to get the engine back from Barrett in Tulsa in January or early = February.  It will take a while to get the engine back on =E2=80=93 = all the other upgrades and fixes completed, taxi tests etc etc and so I = expect to be ready to get airborne again in the spring or early = summer.

&= nbsp;

I= have about 60 hours of personal IVP time =E2=80=93 50 of them in my = airplane.  I am hangared at 0S9, Port Townsend International = Airport in Washington State. 

&= nbsp;

T= he advice I=E2=80=99m looking for centers around the fact that our = runway is 3,000 feet long, certainly more than adequate for this = airplane but not by a lot.  The first flight after reinstallation = will be a test flight with several different concerns.  =

&= nbsp;

1= .       Although I have much confidence in = my decision to have Barrett overhaul the engine, it=E2=80=99s still a = break in flight and carries more risk than normal for that first = takeoff.

2= .       Because I am still a low time LIV = driver and I will have had almost 6 months of rust developing in my IVP = skills, that will be a factor

3= .       Because the airport environment is = not conducive to emergency landing after takeoff (trees and salt water = at both ends) engine problems during this takeoff would be = problematic.

&= nbsp;

P= ort Angeles is about 6 or 7 minutes away in the IVP and has a nice long = and wide runway, so the plan is to head directly there and perform = engine break in over head that airport followed by several landings = there prior to returning to home field.  There is another runway at = Sequim midway between that is 4,000 ft long -  it=E2=80=99s narrow = but could be a satisfactory emergency strip if = necessary.

&= nbsp;

I= s there advice other than hiring another test pilot and/or buying time = in someone else=E2=80=99s IVP that I should be planning for to lower = risks in this upcoming event?  Any other concerns I should be = thinking about I haven=E2=80=99t = mentioned?

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

R= egards,

&= nbsp;

J= ohn Barrett, CEO

L= eading Edge Composites

P= O Box 428

P= ort Hadlock, WA 98339

&= nbsp;

<= a href=3D"http://www.carbinge.com" = target=3D"_blank">www.carbinge.com

&= nbsp;

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