X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 11:15:31 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0) with ESMTP id 5952100 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:47:45 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.41; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.202]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 02B191C00009C for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:47:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-mnd001b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mnd001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.107.1]) by mtaomg-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id CBDC1E000086 for ; Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:47:09 -0500 (EST) References: X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [LML] Getting back into the air In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: vtailjeff@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CFA93E03A9387A_16B0_5074B_webmailstg-m04.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37267-STANDARD Received: from 24.107.65.42 by webmailstg-m04.sysops.aol.com (64.12.225.55) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:47:09 -0500 X-Original-Message-Id: <8CFA93E039FB30A-16B0-1862D@webmailstg-m04.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [24.107.65.42] X-Original-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:47:09 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:424384288:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33ca50cd1a0d03ca This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CFA93E03A9387A_16B0_5074B_webmailstg-m04.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" John, Great questions.=20 First-- how much does your aircraft weigh empty? IVP's are heavier than IV'= s, naturally and have higher landing speeds.=20 Speaking from my experience and LOBO's flight training recommendations, 300= 0 feet of level paved runway in good dry condition with no obstacles in the= approach/departure path is the absolute minimum for an experienced LIVP p= ilot with a proven aircraft.=20 My LIVP would typically use 2000 feet to get off the ground and 2000 feet o= f stopping distance on the ground. For landing, on a 3000 foot runway with 2000 feet to stop means obviously y= ou must be very good at putting the aircraft exactly on the aimpoint. The I= VP typically crosses the threshold at 100 KIAS. With no wind at sea level t= hat is approximately 100 KTAS and 100 KGS. If you are spotting a touchdown = 500 feet down the runway it means you have about 3.2 seconds from threshold= to touchdown. If you are a little fast or a little high and over shoot you= r touchdown spot you are chewing up runway at about 150 feet per second. So= you have three seconds from passing that chosen spot to the point that if = you put it on the runway you will not be able to stop before going off the = end. Rain, turbulence, etc. Forget it.=20 For folks in the Phase I period I urge you to use 5000 feet or more of runw= ay. You have spent many years and thousands of dollars building it now is n= ot the time to get cheap. When you are at that 5000 foot runway put a marke= r at 3000 feet and see how many times you go past it on landing or taking o= ff. I had a client years ago that wanted to use a 2500 foot runway. We trai= ned at a 5000 foot runway with a midfield taxiway. He could never get it st= opped in 2500 feet. Never. Never, Never.=20 BTW I had this same conversation six months ago with Fairley Gooch, a retir= ed Delta captain/ former military pilot. He chose to ignore my advice and L= OBO's advice. May he rest in peace. Best regards, Jeff The advice I=E2=80=99m looking for centers around the fact that our runway = is 3,000 feet long, certainly more than adequate for this airplane but not = by a lot. The first flight after reinstallation will be a test flight with= several different concerns -----Original Message----- From: John Barrett To: lml Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:56 pm Subject: [LML] Getting back into the air My Lancair IVP after 55 hours of total flight time is having an engine over= haul (it was a =E2=80=9Cnew engine=E2=80=9D to start with from Performance = Engines =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll tell that story later) and I expect to get t= he engine back from Barrett in Tulsa in January or early February. It will= take a while to get the engine back on =E2=80=93 all the other upgrades an= d fixes completed, taxi tests etc etc and so I expect to be ready to get ai= rborne again in the spring or early summer. =20 I have about 60 hours of personal IVP time =E2=80=93 50 of them in my airpl= ane. I am hangared at 0S9, Port Townsend International Airport in Washingt= on State. =20 =20 The advice I=E2=80=99m looking for centers around the fact that our runway = is 3,000 feet long, certainly more than adequate for this airplane but not = by a lot. The first flight after reinstallation will be a test flight with= several different concerns. =20 =20 1. Although I have much confidence in my decision to have Barrett ove= rhaul the engine, it=E2=80=99s still a break in flight and carries more ris= k than normal for that first takeoff. 2. Because I am still a low time LIV driver and I will have had almos= t 6 months of rust developing in my IVP skills, that will be a factor 3. Because the airport environment is not conducive to emergency land= ing after takeoff (trees and salt water at both ends) engine problems durin= g this takeoff would be problematic. =20 Port Angeles is about 6 or 7 minutes away in the IVP and has a nice long an= d wide runway, so the plan is to head directly there and perform engine bre= ak in over head that airport followed by several landings there prior to re= turning to home field. There is another runway at Sequim midway between th= at is 4,000 ft long - it=E2=80=99s narrow but could be a satisfactory emer= gency strip if necessary. =20 Is there advice other than hiring another test pilot and/or buying time in = someone else=E2=80=99s IVP that I should be planning for to lower risks in = this upcoming event? Any other concerns I should be thinking about I haven= =E2=80=99t mentioned? =20 =20 =20 Regards, =20 John Barrett, CEO Leading Edge Composites PO Box 428 Port Hadlock, WA 98339 =20 www.carbinge.com =20 =20 ----------MB_8CFA93E03A9387A_16B0_5074B_webmailstg-m04.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
John,
 
Great questions.
 
First-- how much does your aircraft weigh empty? IVP's are heavier tha= n IV's, naturally and have higher landing speeds.
 
Speaking from my experience and LOBO's flight training recommendations= , 3000 feet of level paved runway in good dry condition with no obstac= les in the approach/departure path  is the absolute minimum for <= u>an experienced LIVP pilot with a proven aircraft.
 
My LIVP would typically use 2000 feet to get off the ground and 2000 f= eet of stopping distance on the ground.
 
For landing, on a 3000 foot runway with 2000 feet to stop means obviou= sly you must be very good at putting the aircraft exactly on the aimpoint. = The IVP typically crosses the threshold at 100 KIAS. With no wind at sea le= vel that is approximately 100 KTAS and 100 KGS. If you are spotting a touch= down 500 feet down the runway it means you have about 3.2 seconds from thre= shold to touchdown. If you are a little fast or a little high and over shoo= t your touchdown spot you are chewing up runway at about 150 feet per secon= d. So you have three seconds from passing that chosen spot to the point tha= t if you put it on the runway you will not be able to stop before going off= the end. Rain, turbulence, etc. Forget it.
 
For folks in the Phase I period I urge you to use 5000 feet or more of= runway. You have spent many years and thousands of dollars building it now= is not the time to get cheap. When you are at that 5000 foot runway put a = marker at 3000 feet and see how many times you go past it on landing or tak= ing off. I had a client years ago that wanted to use a 2500 foot runway. We= trained at a 5000 foot runway with a midfield taxiway. He could never get = it stopped in 2500 feet. Never. Never, Never.
 
BTW I had this same conversation six months ago with Fairley Gooc= h, a retired Delta captain/ former military pilot. He chose to ignore = my advice and LOBO's advice. May he rest in peace.
 
Best regards,
 
Jeff
 
The advice I=E2=80=99m looking fo= r centers around the fact that our runway is 3,000 feet=20 long, certainly more than adequate for this airplane but not by a lot. = ; The=20 first flight after reinstallation will be a test flight with several differ= ent=20 concerns
-----Original Message-----
From: John Barrett <jbarrett@carbinge.com>
To: lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 12:56 pm
Subject: [LML] Getting back into the air

My Lancair IVP after 55 hours of total flight time= is having an engine overhaul (it was a =E2=80=9Cnew engine=E2=80=9D to sta= rt with from Performance Engines =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99ll tell that story lat= er) and I expect to get the engine back from Barrett in Tulsa in January or= early February.  It will take a while to get the engine back on =E2= =80=93 all the other upgrades and fixes completed, taxi tests etc etc and s= o I expect to be ready to get airborne again in the spring or early summer.=
 
I have about 60 hours of personal IVP time =E2=80= =93 50 of them in my airplane.  I am hangared at 0S9, Port Townsend In= ternational Airport in Washington State. 
 
The advice I=E2=80=99m looking for centers around = the fact that our runway is 3,000 feet long, certainly more than adequate f= or this airplane but not by a lot.  The first flight after reinstallat= ion will be a test flight with several different concerns. 
 
1.   =     Although I have much confidence in my deci= sion to have Barrett overhaul the engine, it=E2=80=99s still a break in fli= ght and carries more risk than normal for that first takeoff.
2.   =     Because I am still a low time LIV driver a= nd I will have had almost 6 months of rust developing in my IVP skills, tha= t will be a factor
3.   =     Because the airport environment is not con= ducive to emergency landing after takeoff (trees and salt water at both end= s) engine problems during this takeoff would be problematic.
 
Port Angeles is about 6 or 7 minutes away in the I= VP and has a nice long and wide runway, so the plan is to head directly the= re and perform engine break in over head that airport followed by several l= andings there prior to returning to home field.  There is another runw= ay at Sequim midway between that is 4,000 ft long -  it=E2=80=99s narr= ow but could be a satisfactory emergency strip if necessary.
 
Is there advice other than hiring another test pil= ot and/or buying time in someone else=E2=80=99s IVP that I should be planni= ng for to lower risks in this upcoming event?  Any other concerns I sh= ould be thinking about I haven=E2=80=99t mentioned?
 
 
 
Regards,
 
John Barrett, CEO
Leading Edge Composites
PO Box 428
Port Hadlock, WA 98339
 
www.carbinge.com
 
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