X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:34:40 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm2-vm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.33] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c3) with ESMTPS id 5923211 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:41:58 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.33; envelope-from=bu131@swbell.net Received: from [98.138.90.56] by nm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2012 18:41:25 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.78] by tm9.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2012 18:41:25 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1015.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Dec 2012 18:41:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 106859.1281.bm@omp1015.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 56561 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Dec 2012 18:41:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=swbell.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=a23sM2bBhjMDaN04dkrEahGj+qlpaXlItngWVSgi6rKb4BIoRXh6Eodd7jBDepbibLGkG04kteEJyGmCojM47xErhipvsjgHZfRal65sWO1WTH1/RyavbPvAfDEcOMnLZp91+WhLh1jiq8HMX5csBWya1HhJhQYnKshtlIhIhpg=; X-YMail-OSG: n3ES9ukVM1mOnZLVT1uFNYiLR.roGbh2W6o2T2uGHL8YybY KElEkBi_wL79VCpNPzVhf31VkycfD8NJjQyByDBUWv0ngTh1ufTt9hiG7ybg XCI5BfkEdFYT4wf5wHrB7HhEi.vBUcNiyw28gtsxzuCOukf5GdJM5zS0ViaK PV7_H8C1oBmPwQp0HRdlPjE1i7y0nsTwPhFZO3DWLc369fAGtKt9kl4bR0pG OWn8MII70o0EoKvbzFMDse5F27uYiO34LNjXRUlH6s3qO3bujUHvORuRl4oi yz0OU_yRFrZ2v4iDt0R9JX_NUceA1flWJJrj.9kh9GEcjrOJ1N904fqh9SJe 8j..M8Tqt.jVH9_1W65fyKEttLN6WJuckTSNGlkf7S1elXiRqJA2bI4welKu QxLtsj5tFlecImtdr8zRpSd5S0ovwR395CRD9WzlIdihMX_CbMyzXPJ5sax_ .SKLIDvaDUN.aSCkKB4Bu0kUpQM7CpiMQpXmqa4kfUSXmZ7cVV7RFl93XgAY AIoyrbTgDWh1FWPL_SC_E2mo25Mpf4Fyb6UJ_B6K5C25uLw-- Received: from [97.77.29.250] by web80003.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:41:24 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 001.001,b3ZlcmhlYWQgYXBwcm9hY2ggaXMgYSBjb21tb24gSFBBVCBtYW5ldXZlciB1c2VkIGluIGJvdGggdGhlIGV2byBhbmQgdGhlIElWLVAgYW5kIHdoZW4gZG9uZSByaWdodCBpcyB0aGUgc2FmZXN0IHdheSB0byBsb3NlIGFsdGl0dWRlIGFuZCBtYWludGFpbiBhIHJlYXNvbmFibGUgc3BlZWQgZm9yIGxhbmRpbmcuCkkgdXNlIGl0IGFsbCB0aGUgdGltZSBpbiB0aGUgVC02IGZvciBwcmFjdGljZSBhbmQgaXQgcmVxdWlyZXMgYSB2ZXJ5IHN0ZWVwIGFwcHJvYWNoIHdpdGggZmxhcHMgZG93biwgZ2VhciBkb3duIGEBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.128.478 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1354646484.47711.YahooMailNeo@web80003.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 10:41:24 -0800 (PST) From: Dr Andres Katz Reply-To: Dr Andres Katz Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Overhead pattern X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="550260307-1466150836-1354646484=:47711" --550260307-1466150836-1354646484=:47711 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable overhead approach is a common HPAT maneuver used in both the evo and the IV= -P and when done right is the safest way to lose altitude and maintain a re= asonable speed for landing.=0AI use it all the time in the T-6 for practice= and it requires a very steep approach with flaps down, gear down and throt= tle closed. It eliminates all factors involved in landing so you are left w= ith=A0=0Aairspeed and altitude and have to manage both with the angle of gl= ide.=A0=0Athe only dangerous part is if there a quarterly wind and the airp= lane gets blown away from the field in the turn. I have witnessed my lead s= pin the airplane from that position in 2 seconds.=0Aso to avoid that, make = sure you break over the numbers to avoid having to raise the stick. The spe= ed in the IV-P is 120 and the attitude is very steeeeeeep but easy to repea= t and you are always in control with adequate lift and no flutter. =A0The v= iew of the entire field as you turn into it is great and safe. The problem = is that many pilots are not aware of the break maneuver and the rapidity of= descent. You have to tell them in the pattern that you will be landing as = soon as the break is called.=A0=0AWe can recover 10 airplanes in sequence i= n less than 5 minutes with safety when done correctly, that means landing l= ong and allowing for the rest of the formation to come behind, Of course th= e break is done with throttle off so there is no risk of running over the g= uy in front and the turn controls the distance. As long as you place the wh= eels in the same or close spot as the guy in front you will never overunn h= im.=A0=0Abut in a single brake there is no traffic.=A0=0A=0AI highly recomm= end practicing overhead brake landings. Most of the tower controllers are f= amiliar with it and will allow it. It is a legal maneuver.=A0=0A=0Aak=0A=0A= =0A________________________________=0A From: Ted Noel = =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net =0ASent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:54 AM=0AS= ubject: [LML] Re: Overhead pattern=0A =0A=0AI have to second the comment on= training for engine out. I use a Hershey-bar wing Arrow for L-IV engine ou= t training. If I hit midfield cross at 3000 AGL, cut to idle, flat pitch, g= ear down, full flaps, and roll 30 degrees, I get 100 kts at 1600 fpm down. = Hold the turn to the numbers, then roll out and plant it. Lots of fun, mode= rately high pucker factor, and great conditioning.=0A=0ATed Noel=0A=0AOn 12= /3/2012 3:53 PM, JON ADDISON wrote: =0A =0A>Re the overhead pattern. =A0 Ge= orge, good job on explaining it. =A0 Just one more item that is worthy. =A0= The overhead pattern is a superior entry for high speed traffic in that it= provides in the "break" an excellent deceleration rate from cruise speed t= o configuring for landing. =A0 Even my L360 flies initial at 200+ kts, beca= use of some descent still happening, and upon roll out on downwind, the 140= kts is ready for a first notch of flaps, followed quickly with gear at 120 = and then half flaps. =A0 =A0Also, for a low wing (high speed) aircraft, the= overhead approach provides excellent visibility in the 180deg sector of ac= tive traffic entering on a 45deg or already downwind. =A0 Also, it is excel= lent conditioning for an engine out approach; with an engine out over the (= arrival) numbers, there is enough energy left to complete an engine out app= roach and hitting a good altitude at "low key" or downwind opposite the lan= ding numbers, from which a continuous descending turn to final can be made with precision and energy management.= =0A>=0A>=0A>Well worth learning and perfecting.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Jack Addiso= n=0A>Air Force and Navy fighters --550260307-1466150836-1354646484=:47711 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
overhead= approach is a common HPAT maneuver used in both the evo and the IV-P and w= hen done right is the safest way to lose altitude and maintain a reasonable= speed for landing.
I use it all the time = in the T-6 for practice and it requires a very steep approach with flaps do= wn, gear down and throttle closed. It eliminates all factors involved in la= nding so you are left with 
airspeed = and altitude and have to manage both with the angle of glide. 
the only dangerous part is if there a quarterly win= d and the airplane gets blown away from the field in the turn. I have witne= ssed my lead spin the airplane from that position in 2 seconds.
so to avoid that, make sure you break over the numbers to avoid ha= ving to raise the stick. The speed in the IV-P is 120 and the attitude is v= ery steeeeeeep but easy to repeat and you are always in control with adequa= te lift and no flutter.  The view of the entire field as you turn into= it is great and safe. The problem is that many pilots are not aware of the= break maneuver and the rapidity of descent. You have to tell them in the p= attern that you will be landing as soon as the break is called. 
=
We can recover 10 airplanes in sequence in less t= han 5 minutes with safety when done correctly, that means landing long and = allowing for the rest of the formation to come behind, Of course the break = is done with throttle off so there is no risk of running over the guy in fr= ont and the turn controls the distance. As long as you place the wheels in = the same or close spot as the guy in front you will never overunn him. = ;
but in a single brake there is no traffic. 

I highly recommend practicing = overhead brake landings. Most of the tower controllers are familiar with it= and will allow it. It is a legal maneuver. 
ak

= From: Ted Noel <tednoel@cfl.rr.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 8:54 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Overhead pattern

=0A
=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A
=0A= I have to second the comment on training for engine out. I use a=0A = Hershey-bar wing Arrow for L-IV engine out training. If I hit=0A midfiel= d cross at 3000 AGL, cut to idle, flat pitch, gear down, full=0A flaps, = and roll 30 degrees, I get 100 kts at 1600 fpm down. Hold the=0A turn to= the numbers, then roll out and plant it. Lots of fun,=0A moderately hig= h pucker factor, and great conditioning.
=0A
=0A Ted Noel
= =0A
=0A On 12/3/2012 3:53 PM, JON ADDISON wrote:=0A =0A =0A
=0A Re the overhead pattern.   George, good job on = explaining it.  =0A Just one more item that is worthy.   T= he overhead pattern is a=0A superior entry for high speed traffic in= that it provides in the=0A "break" an excellent deceleration rate f= rom cruise speed to=0A configuring for landing.   Even my L360 = flies initial at 200+=0A kts, because of some descent still happenin= g, and upon roll out=0A on downwind, the 140kts is ready for a first= notch of flaps,=0A followed quickly with gear at 120 and then half = flaps.    Also,=0A for a low wing (high speed) aircraft, t= he overhead approach=0A provides excellent visibility in the 180deg = sector of active=0A traffic entering on a 45deg or already downwind.=   Also, it is=0A excellent conditioning for an engine out appr= oach; with an=0A engine out over the (arrival) numbers, there is eno= ugh energy=0A left to complete an engine out approach and hitting a = good=0A altitude at "low key" or downwind opposite the landing numbe= rs,=0A from which a continuous descending turn to final can be made= =0A with precision and energy management.=0A

=0A =
=0A
Well worth learning and perfecting.
=0A =

=0A
=0A
Jack Addison
=0A =
Air Force and Navy fighters
=0A
=0A
= =0A =0A
=0A=0A


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