X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 13:19:38 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com ([216.32.180.189] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c3) with ESMTPS id 5920008 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Dec 2012 10:13:27 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.32.180.189; envelope-from=rpastusek@htii.com Received: from mail82-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.253) by CO1EHSOBE014.bigfish.com (10.243.66.77) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:12:48 +0000 Received: from mail82-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail82-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5A68A01DC for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:12:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.5;KIP:(null);UIP:(null);IPV:NLI;H:CH1PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com;RD:none;EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -7 X-BigFish: PS-7(zz9371Ic85dh145eK1453I4015I14ffIzz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz8275ch17326ah8275bh8275dh18c673hz31h2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12bdh137ah1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1155h) Received-SPF: softfail (mail82-co1: transitioning domain of htii.com does not designate 157.56.245.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.245.5; envelope-from=rpastusek@htii.com; helo=CH1PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ;.outlook.com ; Received: from mail82-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail82-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1354461164448227_14819; Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:12:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS022.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.228]) by mail82-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC8E7C0049 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:12:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.5) by CO1EHSMHS022.bigfish.com (10.243.66.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:12:39 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0710MB367.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.11.134]) by CH1PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.152.40]) with mapi id 14.16.0245.002; Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:12:38 +0000 From: Robert R Pastusek X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: RE: [LML] OshKosh arrival procedures Thread-Topic: [LML] OshKosh arrival procedures Thread-Index: AQHN0I0bPRqcnCcyykmaMS2I+Bh7SpgFj7vQ X-Original-Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 15:12:37 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD4A7FDB57@CH1PRD0710MB367.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [72.66.86.7] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD4A7FDB57CH1PRD0710MB367_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Return-Path: rpastusek@htii.com X-OriginatorOrg: htii.com --_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD4A7FDB57CH1PRD0710MB367_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dico, An "overhead pattern" is commonly used by the military to land a multi-ship= formation of aircraft. I am told it originated from the early days of flyi= ng when engines were not very reliable and this was a way to ensure one cou= ld make the runway from any point near the airfield. The maneuver consists = of flying over the landing runway in the direction of landing at a specifie= d altitude (normally 1500 AGL for military birds these days, but could be d= ifferent. OSH specifies an altitude (below) of 2,300', which is 1500' AGL a= t OSH.) While flying over the runway, at the break point (pilot's discretio= n unless specified-as below-the pilot initiates a level, highly banked (60-= 80 degrees is normal for fighter aircraft) to downwind, in the direction or= to the side of the runway specified (note that this will have you turning = either left or right at OSH, depending on the runway you're directed to. (I= n the case of a multi-ship formation, the last ship in the formation breaks= to downwind abeam the landing point, followed at specifically pre-briefed = timing intervals by the remaining aircraft, with the flight leader breaking= last. Sure you have seen this at airshows; it allows recovery of many airp= lanes very quickly, but the original purpose-of being able to land from any= point near the airfield-has, for most modern fighters, been lost. Few, if = any, can make it to the runway from directly overhead at 1500' and no power= .) So the name comes from a "standard overhead pattern;" break at 1500 AGL = at the approach end of the landing runway and continue a smooth, highly ban= ked full circle to landing. I didn't mention speeds above because it's very dependent on the aircraft, = and the size of the pattern you intend to fly. Since the idea is to stay cl= ose to the field, the entry speed needs to be significantly higher than you= r intended landing speed, and well above 1.2 Vstall. For a Lancair IV/IV-P,= 140-160 KIAS works well for me, with power set at 15" MP, and using about = 50-60 degrees of bank. It is also within the flap extension speed, and clos= e enough to the gear speed that you'll slow to gear lowering speed during t= he turn to downwind, ideally abeam the touchdown point, where it's time to = extend the flaps and gear. The turn circle to downwind, because of the high= er speed, will allow a lesser bank during the turn to final as you're confi= gured. While the first 180 degrees of turn should be level, you'll need to = (significantly) lower the nose as you continue around the second half of th= e 360 turn-you're now configured at high drag and also in a 45-50 degree ba= nk. I won't start my turn to final unless I have 120 KIAS...and that's a ha= rd number for me. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO TRY FOR THE FIRST TIME AT OSHKOSH! If you= intend to use the Warbird Arrival, you MUST be ready for this alternative,= so it would be critical to practice this before heading to OSH, preferably= with someone who'd flown lots of overhead patterns (ex-military?). Having said all this, I can highly recommend the Warbird arrival for our hi= gh-speed Lancairs. The "standard VFR arrival" very often slows to less than= 100 KIAS, in trail, and a Lancair has no place to maneuver. Breaking out t= o re-enter at FISK or ever farther out puts you head-on to folks still look= ing for the arrival checkpoints, and I found it VERY uncomfortable...you wi= ll definitely see lots of airplanes in your windshield if you have to break= out of the VFR arrival and re-enter. BTW, the "standard Warbird arrival" d= oesn't include an overhead; it's direct to the airfield from "Warbird Islan= d"-which is in the Garmin database by the way-to align for a straight-in to= the designated landing runway (usually 36L or 36R). You can expect multi-= ship formation arrivals to ask for the overhead; just because they do doesn= 't mean you have to follow...unless directed to do so. (In multiple arrival= s and local flying during AirVenture over the years, I've never been asked = to make an overhead, but have always been prepared to do so). You might also consider an IFR arrival. You'll have to "reserve" an arrival= slot time to do this, but it works very well, and has gotten me in a coupl= e of times when they were diverting other aircraft due to arrival saturatio= n, parking issues, etc. You then have the option to "cancel IFR" and procee= d to Fond du Lac for the Warbird Arrival if it looks good to you...and the = controllers may ask if you'll accept a VFR arrival anyway. If they do, you = want to be prepared to make it a Warbird arrival. Dico, give me a call on = this if you have further questions. I'd recommend you take an observer with= you when coming to OSH for the first time in your Lancair. The airspace is= very busy and the transition from cruise to landing happens very fast in o= ur aircraft. See you at Oshkosh! Bob PS: We expect to again have a designated parking area on the "show line" fo= r Lancairs. More on this via the LML as the time approaches... From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dico= Reijers Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 8:01 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] OshKosh arrival procedures Hi all, Yes, I realize its pretty early to be thinking of OshKosh, however its just= hovering around freezing here in YYG and I'm thinking warm thoughts.... I was reading up on the Warbird arrival as I plan to fly the IV-P down next= summer and I'm wondering about the following bit of text. Can someone pl= ease explain what this means -- the 360 overhead approach and what a "break= " altitude is. ATC may initiate a 360=B0 overhead approach to other runways as needed for spacing. Break altitude will be 2,300' MSL. Expect a break to the north for Runways 9/27 and to the east for Runways 18/36. Thanks, Dico --_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD4A7FDB57CH1PRD0710MB367_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dico,

An “overhead pattern” is commonly used = by the military to land a multi-ship formation of aircraft. I am told it or= iginated from the early days of flying when engines were not very reliable and this= was a way to ensure one could make the runway from any point near the airf= ield. The maneuver consists of flying over the landing runway in the direct= ion of landing at a specified altitude (normally 1500 AGL for military birds these days, but could be different. = OSH specifies an altitude (below) of 2,300’, which is 1500’ AGL= at OSH.) While flying over the runway, at the break point (pilot’s d= iscretion unless specified—as below—the pilot initiates a level, highly banked (60-80 degrees is normal for fighter aircraft) to d= ownwind, in the direction or to the side of the runway specified (note that= this will have you turning either left or right at OSH, depending on the r= unway you’re directed to. (In the case of a multi-ship formation, the last ship in the formation breaks to d= ownwind abeam the landing point, followed at specifically pre-briefed timin= g intervals by the remaining aircraft, with the flight leader breaking last= . Sure you have seen this at airshows; it allows recovery of many airplanes very quickly, but the original purpos= e—of being able to land from any point near the airfield—has, f= or most modern fighters, been lost. Few, if any, can make it to the runway = from directly overhead at 1500’ and no power.) So the name comes from a “standard overhead pattern;” break at= 1500 AGL at the approach end of the landing runway and continue a smooth, = highly banked full circle to landing.

 

I didn’t mention speeds above because it̵= 7;s very dependent on the aircraft, and the size of the pattern you intend = to fly. Since the idea is to stay close to the field, the entry speed needs t= o be significantly higher than your intended landing speed, and well above = 1.2 Vstall. For a Lancair IV/IV-P, 140-160 KIAS w= orks well for me, with power set at 15” MP, and using about 50-60 deg= rees of bank. It is also within the flap extension speed, and close enough = to the gear speed that you’ll slow to gear lowering speed during the turn to downwind, ideally abeam the touchdown po= int, where it’s time to extend the flaps and gear. The turn circle to= downwind, because of the higher speed, will allow a lesser bank during the= turn to final as you’re configured. While the first 180 degrees of turn should be level, you’ll need to (signi= ficantly) lower the nose as you continue around the second half of the 360 = turn—you’re now configured at high drag and also in a 45-50 deg= ree bank. I won’t start my turn to final unless I have 120 KIAS…and that’s a hard number for me.

 

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO TRY FOR THE FIRST= TIME AT OSHKOSH! If you intend to use the Warbird Arrival, you MUST be ready for this a= lternative, so it would be critical to practice this before heading to OSH,= preferably with someone who’d flown lots of overhead patterns (ex-mi= litary?).

 

Having said all this, I can highly recommend the Warbird arrival for our high-speed Lancairs. The “standard VFR arrival” very often slows to= less than 100 KIAS, in trail, and a Lancair has no place to maneuver. Brea= king out to re-enter at FISK or ever farther out puts you head-on to folks = still looking for the arrival checkpoints, and I found it VERY uncomfortable...you will definitely see lots of airplanes = in your windshield if you have to break out of the VFR arrival and re-enter= . BTW, the “standard Warbird arrival” doesn’t include = an overhead; it’s direct to the airfield from “Warbird Island”—which is in the Garmin database b= y the way—to align for a straight-in to the designated landing runway= (usually 36L or 36R).  You can expect = multi-ship formation arrivals to ask for the overhead; just because they do= doesn’t mean you have to follow…unless directed to do so. (In = multiple arrivals and local flying during AirVenture over the years, I’ve never b= een asked to make an overhead, but have always been prepared to do so).

 

You might also consider an IFR arrival. You’l= l have to “reserve” an arrival slot time to do this, but it wor= ks very well, and has gotten me in a couple of times when they were diverting other airc= raft due to arrival saturation, parking issues, etc. You then have the opti= on to “cancel IFR” and proceed to Fond du Lac for the Warbird Arrival if it looks good to you…= ;and the controllers may ask if you’ll accept a VFR arrival anyway. I= f they do, you want to be prepared to make it a Warbird arrival.  Dico, give me a call on this if you have further question= s. I’d recommend you take an observer with you when coming to OSH for= the first time in your Lancair. The airspace is very busy and the transition from cruise to landing happens very fast in o= ur aircraft.

 

See you at Oshkosh!

 

Bob

 

PS: We expect to again have a designated parking ar= ea on the “show line” for Lancairs. More on this via the LML as the tim= e approaches…

 

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dico Reije= rs
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 8:01 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] OshKosh arrival procedures

 

Hi all,

Yes, I realize its pretty early to be thinking of OshKosh, however its just= hovering around freezing here in YYG and I'm thinking warm thoughts....
I was reading up on the Warbird arrival as I plan to fly the IV-P down next= summer and I'm wondering about the following bit of text.   Can = someone please explain what this means -- the 360 overhead approach and wha= t a "break" altitude is.

ATC may initiate a 360=B0 overhead
approach to other runways as needed for
spacing. Break altitude will be 2,300’
MSL. Expect a break to the north for
Runways 9/27 and to the east for
Runways 18/36.


Thanks,

Dico

 

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