Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20001130135023.103fa9cc@pop.mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:50:23
To: lancair.list@olsusa.com
From: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien@mindspring.com>
Subject: Polyfiber paint system
Reply-To: lancair.list@olsusa.com
Mime-Version: 1.0

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For those of you thinking about using Polyfiber waterborne system I thought
it might be of interest to see what builder's from other lists are saying.
I'm still considering it, though Jim may tell me I'm nuts.  This is a bit
long, but I hope it's worth it.

**********************************************************************

A builder's comments on the Cozy mailing list
(http://cozy.canard.com/mail_list/), late 1999:

..I used their Super Fil - great stuff, mixes easily, sands even easier,
is very light - to get the big bumps out (just kidding!).  

..Then the fun really started - waterborne paint runs like crazy.  For the
inexperienced (like me - apart from all those doors and cabinets) spray
painter the dream turned into a nightmare - runs everywhere. I decided to
sand off most of the first try at applying "Top Gloss" but that stuff is
crosslinked and is TUFF!  After much sanding, I got the runs out and called
Polyfibre for some advice.  Floyd, the expert there, was very helpful and
said it was probably better not to really "flood" the paint on as per
instructions but to put on several thinner coats.  I did this - three coats
in all, each made up of several light passes -  waiting the prescribed time
between coats, and it looked pretty good.  However, my work was not over.
When I came to buff it, I found it was not really flat enough so I ended up
"colour sanding" most of it and then buffing.  

..A lot of work, but the final result is worth it!

..Cleaning up is a dream, just fill up the gun with water and spray away!


A Pulsar builder's advice, posted on the same Cozy list:

..Smooth Prime usually causes people no problem, mainly because it is easy
to sand down smooth after you get some unevenness.  

..TopGloss is different.  You must spray differently than you do the
paints with a flash solvent. You must use light coats...I put on four light
coats and then color sand and polish. (You must color sand and polish this
stuff if you have the level of skills that I have. Maybe a professional who
has mastered water bornes could get a good enough final coat...I can't.)
Also, Top Gloss works best with a high pressure system.  Atomizes the paint
better, and if you don't get it atomized, you can't control it. I had never
sprayed the flash solvent stuff, so I didn't have to unlearn an old
technique. Just learn the new one.  If they try to apply water bornes like
solvent based paints, they will fail.

..Guys better learn to use the water bornes because it won't be long
before you won't be able to ship the solvent based stuff through normal
channels - - like UPS, motor freight, etc. They require shipment as
hazardous materials now,,,wait until it gets tighter. The military uses a
lot of water bornes now and I am told will eventually require all military
painting to be done with the environmentally friendly water born paints.

..After applying TopGloss and letting it set for a week, I began wet color
sanding by hand. A bucket of water, a sponge,  rubber sanding block and
away we go........After a bit I thought there must be a better way.  I
bought a DeWalt palm sander. A bucket of water, a sponge, a DeWalt sander
and away we go........It worked fine...Color sanding is easy, though it
takes a little time. It is worth it!

..It is conventional wisdom that all fillers for composites settle over
time---PolyFiber's UVSmooth Prime amongst them...My advice has been to
prime early and don't try to rush it.

..Superfil is very stable and doesn't shrink. I tried several samples to
come up with the following  procedure: I applied a layer with a three inch
putty knife, forcing it into the surface with the blade held quite flat
against the surface...I let it dry overnight and then applied a guide coat
of black lacquer. I sanded the surface down smooth using 80 grit paper.
(Yes, that is pretty
rough stuff.) I was careful to not sand too much. I applied four sprayed
coats of UVSP and waited to see if I was going to get any differential
settling that would show the pattern of the
composite cloth. After a month, the surface has remained free of any
settling that shows a
cloth pattern, indicating that the Superfil left me with a flat surface.
Disadvantage - it is more work than rolling or spraying on six coats of
UVSP. Advantage - I don't have to wait two months to be sure the UVSP has
finished settling.

..Problems - Only problem I have heard of is that if the Smooth Prime
isn't given enough time to completely dry and settle, the weave pattern
will show up in the surface of your TopGloss when it does.

..You must color sand and polish to get a good finish. After doing that,
the finish is deep and a water surface. Like a hand rubbed finish on a show
car. But, you have to color sand and polish. I use a power palm sander and
power polisher and it goes quite well.

..To overcome the settling, Polyfiber says to put on the TopGloss, don't
color sand and polish for about a month or two to give the Smooth Prome a
chance to settle. They say to go fly off your 40 hours, then color sand and
polish. I prefer to let the Smooth Prime settle for a month or so before
putting the Top Gloss on. What you do, I guess, depends upon where you are
in the process. If you just put the Sandwich on, you probably don't want to
wait a month or so to do the final sanding and apply the TopGloss. If you
follow their advise, put on an extra coat or so of TopGloss because in a
couple months when you color sand to get the weave patptern out, you will
be removing some of the Top Gloss.

..I recommend doing it yourself and the use of TopGloss. Saves a lot of
money. You'll get a lot of satisfaction out of doing it yourself.  AND, you
will be one of the few who can say," I built it and I even painted it!.

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