X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:26:31 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm19-vm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with SMTP id 6617683 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:52:17 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.56; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.101.130] by nm19.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2013 11:51:42 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.169] by tm18.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2013 11:51:42 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1025.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2013 11:51:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 736740.97425.bm@omp1025.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 92283 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2013 11:51:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=qZ4Esw6vBSPfXtU+qQFjoa+QOmxVApKwa2Ozqw+0fLZ3W0rnQfS+BfpPMmjzdA/9ct5ow2GS5uM+6mFD/hpmALN4nrEe8ZXy6JuoRdC9Plr8MHRJiUYpfkfZMAqcr6aEAb2yIeAgeM+LBTMsTb0cH6ZAyyNzmTQvoXnCSZrmWRo=; X-YMail-OSG: .L9p1F4VM1m0jXyO4OYcxpu13o81v.PQjJjenduO2Sv0VC4 2M4t8rl7c1MNsw_pAyFYiPlLaJFXW_muWJmIS8FbYr5xEHCYZZsy_LzPQNC. K3TiUBZkuoMVBPygFVOBi2eQr75EaAl872TojsDnJdYBxxoRamYirXCFiYiz qsEvEACJQjMKgCN.foJe1QKe4QPRyk.KKz.SeEtX9Urd4RVa0381EKwTqBwX k5.Y4rOsWQHZ_UkOGbKSII.MD3utSf1M3hAxwtewU5gVpOA9vyc9bh5pXWS_ IvQ5R9l73s_vrDXsC.qYIrnUkM4q78dTJQ4E52XeuA4MGyVfFcNw5GBTze4S 9Xu.j8378w_Yx8NNgke6zZUltyd62.4HUz1rKVLagdnkLD0.jvb8sRPEKOK9 fGcX5lj0TpkqnUnHd0ERwUCq9E_C3SKN27yi84PKlKU.qw8mql6BfQNM1n7k pRcQv5IKh.Zky.h0GrVyY9h.5pkwFg1qoa2lO49vku7R0ghWujbN8Cxlsvmx e0iNH6HRH3KR8mayQL1Fj4thA0cb5Yl0_xCsBf6L6mMiMJE5CUy_upVqKOi8 QFEECY.gr9J0Wgy.z8A-- Received: from [97.92.63.83] by web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:51:42 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,VGhpcyBzdWJqZWN0IGNvbWVzIHVwIG5vdyBhbmQgdGhlbiBvbiBtb3N0IGFpcmNyYWZ0IGxpc3RzLiDCoFRoZSBjb252ZW50aW9uYWwgdHlwZSBvZiBzb2xlbm9pZCAob3IgY29udGFjdG9yLCBpZiB5b3UgcHJlZmVyKSBsb29rcyB0aGUgc2FtZSB3aGV0aGVyIGl0IGlzIHVzZWQgZm9yIHRoZSBtYXN0ZXIgb3Igc3RhcnRlciwgYnV0IHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgYmlnIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UuIMKgVGhlIHN0YXJ0ZXIgY29udGFjdG9yIGhhcyBhIHN0cm9uZ2VyIHNwcmluZyBhbmQgYSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgY29pbC4gwqBJdCABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.167.602 X-Original-Message-ID: <1385639502.79687.YahooMailNeo@web120102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:51:42 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Casey Reply-To: Gary Casey Subject: Re: stuck starter solenoid X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1658718958-813323383-1385639502=:79687" ---1658718958-813323383-1385639502=:79687 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This subject comes up now and then on most aircraft lists. =A0The conventio= nal type of solenoid (or contactor, if you prefer) looks the same whether i= t is used for the master or starter, but there is a big difference. =A0The = starter contactor has a stronger spring and a different coil. =A0It is rate= d (guessing here) at about 500 amps compared to maybe 50 amps for the maste= r contactor. =A0One cannot be used for the other application, but every onc= e in a while a master contactor gets installed in the starter circuit. =A0B= ut, you say, the starter current goes through both, so how does that work i= f the master is only rated at 50 amps (the starter probably pulls 300 amps)= ? =A0The answer is buried in the rating - the current rating is about how m= uch current can be interrupted, not how much it can carry. =A0The master wi= ll not interrupt the high starter current reliably. =A0Has nothing to do wi= th the battery being low.=0AHope this clarifies the situation.=0AGary Casey= =0A=0A=0AJust thought I would throw in a data point here amidst all the rel= ay talk.=0A=0A=0A=0ATwo weeks ago I had what turned out to be a stuck start= er solenoid.=A0 I had=0Abeen troubleshooting my noise issue and had done a = series of startups and=0Ashutdowns.=A0 Four over 20 minutes or so.=A0 On th= e last shutdown, I momentarily=0Agrounded the mags as normal and pulled the= throttle and mixture.=A0 Prop kept=0Agoing..thought it was what we used to= call dieseling.=A0 Turned off mags.still=0Arunning.=A0 Fuel off.. still ru= nning.=A0 Master off killed it.=A0 Master back on=0Aturned prop again, and = quickly blew the fuse on my Vertical Power system at=0Athe main battery.=A0= I thought I had a problem with the dreaded starter=0Aadapter, but that loo= ked OK.=0A=0A=0A=0AI'll save the whole troubleshooting story, but it was in= deed the starter=0Asolenoid.=A0 2007 kit, about 90 hours total time.=A0 It = was a Hersee solenoid=0Athat I got directly from Lancair in the FWF kit for= the starter circuit.=0AThe part number was 24144 if my memory is correct (= I do have a pic).=A0 I=0Alooked it up on their website.=A0 It was a continu= ous duty solenoid like you=0Awould use for a master, and not an intermitten= t as needed for the starter=0Acircuit.=A0 It seems to really make a differe= nce.=A0 Someday I will cut it open=0Ato see what it looks like.=0A ---1658718958-813323383-1385639502=:79687 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This subject comes up now and then on most aircraft list= s.  The conventional type of solenoid (or contactor, if you prefer) lo= oks the same whether it is used for the master or starter, but there is a b= ig difference.  The starter contactor has a stronger spring and a diff= erent coil.  It is rated (guessing here) at about 500 amps compared to= maybe 50 amps for the master contactor.  One cannot be used for the o= ther application, but every once in a while a master contactor gets install= ed in the starter circuit.  But, you say, the starter current goes thr= ough both, so how does that work if the master is only rated at 50 amps (th= e starter probably pulls 300 amps)?  The answer is buried in the ratin= g - the current rating is about how much current can be interrupted, not how much it can carry.  The master will not interrupt the high st= arter current reliably.  Has nothing to do with the battery being low.=
Hope this clarifies the situation.
Gary Casey


Just thought I= would throw in a data point here amidst all the relay talk.



Two weeks ago I had what turn= ed out to be a stuck starter solenoid.  I had
been troubleshooting my noise issue and had done a series of startup= s and
shutdowns.  Four over= 20 minutes or so.  On the last shutdown, I momentarily
grounded the mags as normal and pulled the thr= ottle and mixture.  Prop kept
going..thought it was what we used to call dieseling.  Turned off m= ags.still
running.  Fuel of= f.. still running.  Master off killed it.  Master back on
turned prop again, and quickly blew the fuse on= my Vertical Power system at
the= main battery.  I thought I had a problem with the dreaded starter
adapter, but that looked OK.=



I'll save the whole tro= ubleshooting story, but it was indeed the starter
solenoid.  2007 kit, about 90 hours total time.  It was a Hersee= solenoid
that I got directly fr= om Lancair in the FWF kit for the starter circuit.
The part number was 24144 if my memory is correct (I do = have a pic).  I
looked it u= p on their website.  It was a continuous duty solenoid like you=
would use for a master, and not an int= ermittent as needed for the starter
circuit.  It seems to really make a difference.  Someday I will = cut it open
to see what it looks= like.
<= /div> ---1658718958-813323383-1385639502=:79687--