X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:06:57 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm25-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([216.39.62.72] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6586210 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 08:34:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.39.62.72; envelope-from=cwfmd@yahoo.com Received: from [216.39.60.166] by nm25.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2013 13:33:42 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.240] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2013 13:33:42 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1011.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2013 13:33:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 440887.38795.bm@omp1011.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 53440 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2013 13:33:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=qatd8uzZxVWs+gvefXEenoU6ALL9kgV+dy7OP73dqjm4fZHn8kiUufAc6axFTrqcnn8mo+pOfVjNBBBYxwo8PoVUYLkRjqeihnuTCELvzuELKFIuj8IbuWD0iI2CYTitfQYHdQV+ceqlit/mrfJO8et9gGeMAh8mbmuxLhly9qc=; X-YMail-OSG: s1ZhXkoVM1l4Vn4XBGuB_wrM6qOk_1qXoCB1yNNyNLdHnaV J8tslxVm5NY_Yv1atPdKC0iFkQmHtKER6vjNbYM2zxBUHmmdMv.LHjBI5RIy Bgg_aEqljUOYGatiJR8.QspXKu7P216gLsJESNxvkXmm9d4o36MlFdvuZ48v UjGMzrYtMgSXFoJcSVMIBWy6hyIwobnzdwpIXdc9JS8gWbKJlIHpFlJFMAlR tjfepN4to9Rywe8nTKtLXZFbY2L_GrZXA.g9imLad8SFHpkKdJ1XbI3KK9_5 i.7EYIt7P7v6UCAXPAFpXPZSunL_xF_cGEuapx6F_sArAjzbxhzCuAJqpcRU GFkrccpeJjsqI.IykfA3IGo8lfoJUu08Hvi3BP.BGe3z9.VSYBB_xj7JLThv N3a9QiTHo.AEQvisjJ2zsv8sAtYtE9OB7XXoI09jMTlstjTu6AZc4hJn3Uxp F1eUoDUbs26Nq523N4SwjjZQMMNTC3NkU_Sq.0EVsbI8Vcbj86zzsBNQludW 6MO6v0rwK.4D3RxFNwBS.SVkP_wv_lBtpxOF0WPN31w_zoPPAdaKeYzLRKfT K58r8OKk7Ai7O_D1hl6Bc9_WgCP6L37DsUeQT4eW1XBG8Uh1H2wInh9QLwtF kT2WjTvSJRg-- Received: from [98.196.182.216] by web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 05:33:41 PST X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,UmU6IFRCTSBDUkFTSCAtSUNJTkcgVEVCIC0gd2hhdCB3b3VsZCB5b3UgZG8_CgoKSW4gdGhlIExhbmNhaXIgSVYtUCwgSSBhdm9pZCB2aXNpYmxlIG1vaXN0dXJlIHdoZW5ldmVyIGljaW5nIGlzIHBvc3NpYmxlICgrNWMgdG8gLTIwYyBzdHJhdHVzIG9yIC00MGMgY3VtdWx1cykuIFRoZXJlIGFyZSBpbXByb3ZpbmcgZm9yZWNhc3QgbWFwcyBhbmQgcHJvZHVjdHMgYXQgQUREUy4gRG8gYSB0aG9yb3VnaCBwcmVmbGlnaHQgYnJpZWZpbmcuIEVzcGVjaWFsbHkgYXZvaWQgdGhlIGNvbWJpbmF0aW9uIG9mIGhpZ2gBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.163.597 X-Original-Message-ID: <1384263221.33177.YahooMailNeo@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 05:33:41 -0800 (PST) From: cwfmd@yahoo.com Reply-To: cwfmd@yahoo.com Subject: Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do? X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1001595050-552691853-1384263221=:33177" ---1001595050-552691853-1384263221=:33177 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do?=0A=0A=0AIn the Lancair IV-P, = I avoid visible moisture whenever icing is possible (+5c to -20c stratus or= -40c cumulus). There are improving forecast maps and products at ADDS. Do = a thorough preflight briefing. Especially avoid the combination of high ter= rain and icing. This is where most of the surprises happen. The plane is so= fast and efficient, you can go around the problem, or over and above it. P= lan your route and climb accordingly. Monitor developing storms cause they = don't always go where the forecasters told them to.=A0 If the terrain and i= cing are at your destination, wait another day or two or hire swa.com. They= let you change and reuse the fare, without penalties, like the other airli= nes- in fact we should give SWA an award for this to set an example for the= others!=0A=A0I will ask for an altitude "block" to maneuver=A0=A0=A0=A0 (i= s this a military thing-do civil aviators know about this?) ...=0Aor just c= ancel IFR and do a 180. If in the goo and he won't give it to you, on the f= irst request, squawk 7700 and start your climbing turn, 180 degrees. A litt= le FAA phone call and/or paperwork is not worth dying for. Neither is the r= ental car reservation, the meeting, or the ski vacation. =0A=0APractice ful= l power climbing 180 turn IMC on partial panel for your escape maneuver. St= atic discharge, with random voltage spikes through your on-board networked = data can take out many Attitude displays and GPS displays, especially in co= mposite airplanes.=0A=0A=0Aa, d and e are my answers to the multiple choice= below-=A0=A0=0A=0AWhile the above strategy is based on military and flight= test experience, I've only been scared by icing twice:=0Ain my Mooney over= the Southern Rockies in 1984 and 2 years ago in my IV-P over the Cascades = (OSH presentation 2011)=0A=0ABoth times it was completely unfair, unforecas= t, and blindsided me... fool me once...=0A=0ABill Miller=0A=0A=0A=0ARe: TBM= CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do?=0A=A0=0Asplitting this thread from J= ohn's.=0Agood tape. =A0 What would you have done and when?=0AIt's a turbine= with tons of climb power and boots and you've seen moderate ice before.=0A= =A0=0Aa) stayed below IMC=0Ab) not entered IMC until you were guaranteed a = continuous climb to fl200=0Ac) accept clearance as given accident pilot and= then violate clearance and continue climbing once icing got beyond light, = declare emergency=A0=0Ad) descend as soon as you saw ice=0Ae) something els= e ---1001595050-552691853-1384263221=:33177 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Re: TBM CRASH -I= CING TEB - what would you do?

In the= Lancair IV-P, I avoid visible moisture whenever icing is possible (+5c to = -20c stratus or -40c cumulus). There are improving forecast maps and produc= ts at ADDS. Do a thorough preflight briefing. Especially avoid the combinat= ion of high terrain and = icing. This is where most of the surprises happen. The plane is so fast and= efficient, you can go around the problem, or over and above it. Plan your route and climb accordingly. Monitor developing storms cause they don't al= ways go where the forecasters told them to.  If the terrain and icing = are at your destination, wait another day or two or hire swa.com. They let = you change and reuse the fare, without penalties, like the other airlines- = in fact we should give SWA an award for this to set an example for the othe= rs!
 I will ask for an altitude "block" to maneuver &nb= sp;   (is this a military thing-do civil aviators know about this= ?) ...
or just cancel IFR and do a 180. If in the goo and he won= 't give it to you, on the first request, squawk 7700 and start your climbin= g turn, 180 degrees. A little FAA phone call and/or paperwork is not worth = dying for. Neither is the rental car reservation, the meeting, or the ski v= acation.
Practice full power climbing 180 turn IM= C on partial panel for your escape maneuver. Static discharge, with random = voltage spikes through your on-board networked data can take out many Attit= ude displays and GPS displays, especially in composite airplanes.
=

a, d and e are my answers to the multiple choice b= elow-  

While the above strate= gy is based on military and flight test experience, I've only been scared by icing twice:
in my Mooney over the Southern Rockies in 1= 984 and 2 years ago in my IV-P over the Cascades (OSH presentation 2011)
Both times it was completely unfair, unforecast, and blind= sided me... fool me once...
Bill Miller


Re: TBM CRASH -ICING TEB - what would you do?=
 
splitting this thread from John's.
good tape.   What would you= have done and when?
It'= s a turbine with tons of climb power and boots and you've seen moderate ice= before.
 
a) stayed below IMC<= /div>
b) not entered IMC= until you were guaranteed a continuous climb to fl200
c)=0A accept clearance as given accident pilot a= nd then violate clearance and=0A continue climbing once icing got beyond li= ght, declare emergency 
d) descend as soon as you saw ice
e) something else
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