X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 13:28:14 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.90.90] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6442084 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 13:04:21 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.90.90; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.101.132] by nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Aug 2013 17:03:45 -0000 Received: from [98.138.87.4] by tm20.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Aug 2013 17:03:45 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Aug 2013 17:03:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 810795.38434.bm@omp1004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 97606 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Aug 2013 17:03:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=F1K7fU3JpQSEo+hEI/lBvhOFTqzV5qFv0FnkzWl1/qqLSw2OT1pAF7UmhXKYj1I1LlOPjJ+uLG93BG1Tv63lnp9LrJAWNkudWiscwRWD6OVkilAmyrVQAkSG56vv+gkfzTs4M68uYrPDg0A70yfOCbe0t/g/soPjRMtEyYvUdBg=; X-YMail-OSG: lHsD5kMVM1kawJmG_hofw.7c2761SpUVi6X6mJO9XlyaPiq vBgAUEaCU0xxdC9LH959GyasBXlgaZhc7lwTCbA9bmytInL8HW6cH4pqXMaF pNcqyq_j_GEJGFZhp.QhiIamgGhRruPw.D8B9lNR3OpFMzobHpNd2pkmBNRg .SmHrutUljH62Woub1QkimqmO5WKEJJG2LtdNzz7dTaJ4q4TuQrliRwet9UY 8J0e1I0wG0uxTAletK9XbJxqbdxOXbwH4Yz_muytmHBwR1n7HpSZd9i_Lqh6 KTj1qRGCCxD3euEUlGftrgTqd.1eaS9yqOrLETn0xzsPAzhLkooNy7P7mbKl pu2FLRl6rjFftntJ2tOhh1Ch3_Fr4BzwXTWJrErOLf7FFmkchQS2IQ9ThYuE BllRrcJXv3.z0MAF4EutXLqAVFbhZcITqfADpZ7iL5rYQaKy7A3ddve3fMVq 6me9DxHsL7ixjFnZlXnxIl8h5qERF0E1FdQ582bcHpiK98DfczfottpLJWol 5L2kPGIj5ZFRdHlEvRZp7YjYQjZ8A77SVn6IkhVWzTkrPBgrnlp9d2RJkOX_ 7Gt_lWAma5Br60r7okgL7Qh4.I09cPVUCoQHVhxWqcJH7k_dAuL_nikrazTB FIgD06t7pbgAcjTsrXaz6EG9gSAHKQKdd7vruVbz4_sQbCKFhnVYeXxKS33m UznPgeQFoZMwklHp21CB4h9_SWCnsbsYGM.j_ZsXHAUz8n3MM2ceLIxccc4O dggStirRLGDB7VpCuf2ktpfVT2.PCzUXMG0zwjp6lzGRXIecQXuNwz84D6b4 5Yvo7H9hEpsYubHwtAFzbHhACKA9QzMMGR2ZN9lE1BRP3bJzInCRLX9FdP7p y13utNad1IrewR1SVST6PwanD0vKeBru.DDF4i5qp25_7jiv5BfjULeYeUxu iuEFveTh7zA-- Received: from [64.134.229.78] by web121606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:03:44 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,Um9nZXIsCldpbmdsZXRzIGFyZSBlZmZlY3RpdmUgYXQgaGlnaCBsaWZ0IGNvZWZmaWNpZW50cy7CoCBUaGV5IGFkZCBzb21lIHBhcmFzaXRpYyBsb3NzZXPCoHdoaWxlwqByZWR1Y2luZyBpbmR1Y2VkIGRyYWcuwqAgRm9yIHRoaXMgdHJhZGUgdG8gbWFrZSBhbnkgc2Vuc2UgaG93ZXZlciBvbmUgbmVlZHMgdG8gYmUgb3BlcmF0aW5nIGF0IGEgbGlmdCBjb2VmZmljaWVudCB0aGF0IHByb2R1Y2VzIHNpZ25pZmljYW50IGluZHVjZWQgZHJhZy7CoCBJbiB0aGUgMzIwLzM2MCBtb3N0IG9wZXJhdGlvbiBpcyBhdCABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.155.576 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1377536624.97179.YahooMailNeo@web121606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:03:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Winglets/lighting. X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="1458340343-1559628599-1377536624=:97179" --1458340343-1559628599-1377536624=:97179 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger,=0AWinglets are effective at high lift coefficients.=A0 They add some= parasitic losses=A0while=A0reducing induced drag.=A0 For this trade to mak= e any sense however one needs to be operating at a lift coefficient that pr= oduces significant induced drag.=A0 In the 320/360 most operation is at a C= L between 0.2 and 0.3.=A0 The link below is to a paper showing the effects = of winglets on a Bonanza.=A0 The cross over point was at a CL of 0.3.=A0 Fo= r us to cruise and greater than 0.3 we would need to fly=A0really high and = really heavy.=A0=A0I am assuming WOT here.=A0 Part throttle will allow for= =A0higher lift coefficients.=A0 If you are trying to maximize range at the = expense of top speed=A0winglets could be useful.=0AThe big boys flying at 3= 0-40k do operate at high lift coefficient that make winglets effective in c= ruise.=0A=A0=0Ahttp://n91cz.com/Interesting_Technical_Reports/NASA_TM81892.= pdf=0A=A0=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Ahttp://www.n91cz.net/=0A=A0= =0A=A0 =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Roger Iverin =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net =0ASent: Monday, August 26, 2013 5:= 02 AM=0ASubject: [LML] Winglets/lighting.=0A =0A=0AGents,=0A=0AI'm in the = progress getting made modern led lighting for the 320/360.=0A=0A=0AIn this = progress I also trying figure out the effect of winglets.=0AI have seen pic= tures of 320/360 with winglets.=0ABut I would like to know about the perfor= mance changes.=0A=0AIn both this I would like to buy or borrow wintips as d= elivered with =0AKIT. (making a mold)=0ANOT anything done, sanded or anythi= ng to make sure it's as original as =0Apossible.=0A=0AI have already wingti= ps, but they cutted for lenses.=0A=0A=0ARegards the lighting I'm trying to = get a kind of cofoundig for the first =0Aones.=0A=0AThis is the company and= the inspiration:=0A=0Ahttp://www.aveoengineering.com/index.php/products-1/= custom-projects/conforma-ziptips-for-vans-and-f-1-rocket=0A=0ABut I'm open = for all options.=0A=0APlease share with me your ligting ideas and winglets = experince.=0A=0A=0APlease contact me on list or off list!=0A=0A=0A=0ABest r= egards=0ARoger Iverin=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AFor archives and unsub http://m= ail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --1458340343-1559628599-1377536624=:97179 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roger,
Winglets are effective at high lift coefficients.  They add s= ome parasitic losses while reducing induced drag.  For this = trade to make any sense however one needs to be operating at a lift coeffic= ient that produces significant induced drag.  In the 320/360 most oper= ation is at a CL between 0.2 and 0.3.  The link below is to a paper sh= owing the effects of winglets on a Bonanza.  The cross over point was = at a CL of 0.3.  For us to cruise and greater than 0.3 we would need t= o fly really high and really heavy.  I am assuming WOT here.=   Part throttle will allow for higher lift coefficients.  If= you are trying to maximize range at the expense of top speed winglets= could be useful.
The big boys flying at 30-40k do operate at high lift coefficient that make winglets effective in cruise= .
 
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std
 
=
 
From: Roger Iverin <roger@iverin.com>
= To: lml@lancaironline.net
= Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013= 5:02 AM
Subject: [LML= ] Winglets/lighting.

= Gents,

I'm in the progress getting made modern led lighting for the = 320/360.


In this progress I also trying figure out the effect of= winglets.
I have seen pictures of 320/360 with winglets.
But I would= like to know about the performance changes.

In both this I would li= ke to buy or borrow wintips as delivered with
KIT. (making a mold)
N= OT anything done, sanded or anything to make sure it's as original as
p= ossible.

I have already wingtips, but they cutted for lenses.

Regards the lighting I'm trying to get a kind of cofoundig for the fir= st
ones.

This is the company and the inspiration:

http://www.av= eoengineering.com/index.php/products-1/custom-projects/conforma-ziptips-for= -vans-and-f-1-rocket

But I'm open for all options.

Please= share with me your ligting ideas and winglets experince.


Please= contact me on list or off list!



Best regards
Roger Iveri= n





--
For archives and unsub http://mail.l= ancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html


=
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