X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com ([216.32.180.184] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6435563 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 07:58:00 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.32.180.184; envelope-from=rpastusek@htii.com Received: from mail75-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.226) by CO1EHSOBE019.bigfish.com (10.243.66.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:57:13 +0000 Received: from mail75-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail75-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4373C034F for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:57:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.5;KIP:(null);UIP:(null);IPV:NLI;H:CH1PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com;RD:none;EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -2 X-BigFish: PS-2(zzbb2dIc85fh148cIzz1f42h208ch1ee6h1de0h1fdah2073h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1d7338h1de098h17326ah18c673h1de096h8275bh8275dh1de097hz2fh2a8h839hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12bdh137ah1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1bceh1d07h1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1de9h1dfeh1dffh1e1dh1fe8h1ff5h1155h) Received-SPF: pass (mail75-co1: domain of htii.com designates 157.56.245.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.245.5; envelope-from=rpastusek@htii.com; helo=CH1PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ;.outlook.com ; Received: from mail75-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail75-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1377086227731698_19664; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:57:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS030.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.245]) by mail75-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE2C30004A for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:57:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.5) by CO1EHSMHS030.bigfish.com (10.243.66.40) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:57:07 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0710MB367.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.11.120]) by CH1PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.152.40]) with mapi id 14.16.0347.000; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:57:05 +0000 From: Robert R Pastusek To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: RE: [LML] Flaps, glide ratio, RPM effects and making the runway Thread-Topic: [LML] Flaps, glide ratio, RPM effects and making the runway Thread-Index: AQHOnmOu6R8VEBG3FU6K8L1mDdjuipmfi9bQ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 11:57:05 +0000 Message-ID: <41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD6689E3C7@CH1PRD0710MB367.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [96.241.131.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD6689E3C7CH1PRD0710MB367_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Return-Path: rpastusek@htii.com X-OriginatorOrg: htii.com X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% --_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD6689E3C7CH1PRD0710MB367_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dan, A most sincere thanks for putting this all together, and for posting for al= l to see/use. My IV-P performs similarly in these configurations... just a = bit better when "normally" loaded at about 3100#; very close to the same at= my max gross weight (set/tested at 3600# by me). I would encourage all Lan= cair owners to try this for yourself, and to practice it until you can do i= t comfortably...every time. Take an instructor with you to start if you're = the least bit uncomfortable, but this should be a "standard maneuver" in ev= ery Lancair owner's bag of tricks IMHO. Bob LMLers, During flight testing of my 320 several years ago, I collected glide ratio = data for 3 different configurations as you can see below in the copy of the= spreadsheet where I keep this data. Config Flaps Gear Prop Decent Rate KIAS Glide Ratio Cruise/low drag up up low RPM 600 103 17.3 Approach/low drag 10 deg down low RPM 1300 92 7.1 Approach/high drag 10 deg down high RPM 1900 92 4.9 NOTES: Test aircraft is Lancair 320 MKII, N320DK, owned and flown by Dan Olsen on = 8/10/04 Engine is Lycoming IO-320-D1B, stock, 160hp Prop is Hartzell HC-F2YL-8468-14D Engine power set to idle (not completely shut off) Empty weight 1142 Pilot 195 Fuel (36gal) 216 Baggage 20 Gross Weight 1573 Test altitude was 7500' - 9500' Aircraft was flown with Jim Frantz's AOA Pro at the best glide AOA and KIAS= was then noted It is quite alarming to see the incredible difference between a clean, max = glide config and a normal approach to landing config. Glide ratio goes fro= m 17:1 down to 5:1. I remember speaking with Orin Riddel at the Lancair fa= ctory years ago and him describing that if you were on downwind, abeam the = numbers, and your engine quit and you left it in the high-drag congif, you = will not make the runway. First reaction should be to immediately retract = the gear, low RPM on the prop and get the flaps up. I practice this scenario regularly and I can always make the runway with th= e main issue typically being that I land long and have to turn up the RPM t= o add drag on short final: * Fly normal downwind * Chop the throttle to dead idle on downwind * Low RPM (coarse pitch) * Gear and flaps up * Pitch for best L/D on the AOA * Fly the pattern (tighter than normal) * On short final when runway is assured, drop the gear and 10deg fl= aps * Add flaps and increase RPM, as necessary, to avoid landing danger= ously long I encourage all Lancair drivers to get some experience with your plane in t= he various drag scenarios with the engine at idle, especially the dramatic = difference that flat vs. coarse pitch on your prop makes. There is nothing= like feeling it for real to teach you some of the "muscle memory" needed t= o react in a pinch. Upon departing OSH a few weeks ago, I wanted to fly across Lake Michigan to= visit my daughter. Going around is very long and going over is very scary= :) So, I was able to take the knowledge from actual glide testing of my 3= 20 to create the following table to show how high above the water I need to= be in order to glide to the shore in the case of engine failure at the mid= dle of the lake. The area of the lake I went across was about 60nm across,= so 30nm from center to shore. Lancair 320 N320DK Glide Ratio 17 15 12 10 8 7 5 Distance to Glide (nm) 50 17,871 20,253 25,317 30,380 37,975 43,400 60,760 45 16,084 18,228 22,785 27,342 34,178 39,060 54,684 40 14,296 16,203 20,253 24,304 30,380 34,720 48,608 35 12,509 14,177 17,722 21,266 26,583 30,380 42,532 30 10,722 12,152 15,190 18,228 22,785 26,040 36,456 25 8,935 10,127 12,658 15,190 18,988 21,700 30,380 20 7,148 8,101 10,127 12,152 15,190 17,360 24,304 15 5,361 6,076 7,595 9,114 11,393 13,020 18,228 10 3,574 4,051 5,063 6,076 7,595 8,680 12,152 5 1,787 2,025 2,532 3,038 3,798 4,340 6,076 1 357 405 506 608 760 868 1,215 Clean Low RPM Landing Low RPM Landing High RPM My table shows about 12,500' above the water (approx. 13,500' MSL) would ge= t me to the shore (to be conservative I used a 15:1 glide ratio even though= my testing showed 17:1 because the engine was still producing minimal powe= r during the test). So, with approved floatation gear donned, we charged a= cross at 15,500', giving us a good 5nm of buffer to account for extra weigh= t and other fudge factors. I hope this data is helpful to some of you and encouraging to others to go = do this testing and practice engine-out procedures in your Lancair. Regards, Dan Olsen N320DK - 750 hrs IV-P in gestation --_000_41361035E6613244A377D5AC3BF5EFDD6689E3C7CH1PRD0710MB367_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dan,

A most sincere thanks for putting this all together, and for po= sting for all to see/use. My IV-P performs similarly in these configurations… just a bit better when “normally̶= 1; loaded at about 3100#; very close to the same at my max gross weight (se= t/tested at 3600# by me). I would encourage all Lancair owners to try this = for yourself, and to practice it until you can do it comfortably…every time. Take an instructor with you to start if y= ou’re the least bit uncomfortable, but this should be a “standa= rd maneuver” in every Lancair owner’s bag of tricks IMHO.<= /o:p>

 

Bob

 

LMLers,

 

During flight testing of my 320 several years ago, I= collected glide ratio data for 3 different configurations as you can see b= elow in the copy of the spreadsheet where I keep this data.

 

Config

Flaps

Gear

Prop

Decent Rate

KIAS

Glide Ratio

Cruise/low drag

up

up

low RPM

600

103

17.3

Approach/low drag

10 deg

down

low RPM

1300

92

7.1

Approach/high drag

10 deg

down

high RPM

1900

92

4.9

NOTES:

Test aircraft is Lancair 320 MKII, N320DK= , owned and flown by Dan Olsen on 8/10/04

Engine is Lycoming IO-320-D1B, stock, 160= hp

Prop is Hartzell HC-F2YL-8468-14D

Engine power set to idle (not completely = shut off)

Empty weight

1142

Pilot

195

Fuel (36gal)

216

Baggage

20

Gross Weight

1573

Test altitude was 7500' - 9500'

Aircraft was flown with Jim Frantz's AOA = Pro at the best glide AOA and KIAS was then noted

 

It is quite alarming to see the incredible differenc= e between a clean, max glide config and a normal approach to landing config= .  Glide ratio goes from 17:1 down to 5:1.  I remember speaking w= ith Orin Riddel at the Lancair factory years ago and him describing that if you were on downwind, abeam the numbers, an= d your engine quit and you left it in the high-drag congif, you will not ma= ke the runway.  First reaction should be to immediately retract the ge= ar, low RPM on the prop and get the flaps up.

 

I practice this scenario regularly and I can always = make the runway with the main issue typically being that I land long and ha= ve to turn up the RPM to add drag on short final:

· &= nbsp;       Fly normal downwind

· &= nbsp;       Chop the throttle to dead idle on downwind

· &= nbsp;       Low RPM (coarse pitch)

· &= nbsp;       Gear and flaps up

· &= nbsp;       Pitch for best L/D on the AOA

· &= nbsp;       Fly the pattern (tighter than normal)

· &= nbsp;       On short final when runway is assured, drop = the gear and 10deg flaps

· &= nbsp;       Add flaps and increase RPM, as necessary, to= avoid landing dangerously long

 

I encourage all Lancair drivers to get some experien= ce with your plane in the various drag scenarios with the engine at idle, e= specially the dramatic difference that flat vs. coarse pitch on your prop m= akes.  There is nothing like feeling it for real to teach you some of the “muscle memory” needed to= react in a pinch.

 

Upon departing OSH a few weeks ago, I wanted to fly = across Lake Michigan to visit my daughter.  Going around is very long = and going over is very scary J  So, I was able to take= the knowledge from actual glide testing of my 320 to create the following = table to show how high above the water I need to be in order to glide to th= e shore in the case of engine failure at the middle of the lake.  The area of the lake I went across was about= 60nm across, so 30nm from center to shore.

 

Lancair 320

N320DK

Glide Ratio

17

15

12

10

8

7

5

Distance to Glide (nm)

50

    17,871

    20,253

    25,317

    30,380

    37,975

    43,400

    60,760

45

    16,084

    18,228

    22,785

    27,342

    34,178

    39,060

    54,684

40

    14,296

    16,203

    20,253

    24,304

    30,380

    34,720

    48,608

35

    12,509

    14,177

    17,722

    21,266

    26,583

    30,380

    42,532

30

    10,722

    12,152

    15,190

    18,228

    22,785

    26,040

    36,456

25

     8,935

    10,127

    12,658

    15,190

    18,988

    21,700

    30,380

20

     7,148

     8,101

    10,127

    12,152

    15,190

    17,360

    24,304

15

     5,361

     6,076

     7,595

     9,114

    11,393

    13,020

    18,228

10

     3,574

     4,051

     5,063

     6,076

     7,595

     8,680

    12,152

5

     1,787

     2,025

     2,532

     3,038

     3,798

     4,340

     6,076

1

       = ; 357

       = ; 405

       = ; 506

       = ; 608

       = ; 760

       = ; 868

     1,215

Clean
Low RPM

Landing
Low RPM

Landing
High RPM

 

My table shows about 12,500’ above the water (= approx. 13,500’ MSL) would get me to the shore (to be conservative I = used a 15:1 glide ratio even though my testing showed 17:1 because the engi= ne was still producing minimal power during the test).  So, with approved floatation gear donned, we charged across a= t 15,500’, giving us a good 5nm of buffer to account for extra weight= and other fudge factors.

 

I hope this data is helpful to some of you and encou= raging to others to go do this testing and practice engine-out procedures i= n your Lancair.

 

Regards,

 

Dan Olsen

N320DK – 750 hrs

IV-P in gestation

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