X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 08:27:55 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6024863 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:48:29 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.41; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.2]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 4A0141C0000B8 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:47:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.90.120.237] (mobile-166-147-080-156.mycingular.net [166.147.80.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 7A5C5E000093; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:47:52 -0500 (EST) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-0DC438A5-018A-41DB-A860-74B6C0B7C624 X-Original-Message-Id: <8A68C556-5D4C-44A9-AE5D-E089B187EA46@aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: Re: [LML] Re: WPR13FA076 X-Original-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:47:50 -0800 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:435257664:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290250ff4f58007a X-AOL-IP: 166.147.80.156 --Apple-Mail-0DC438A5-018A-41DB-A860-74B6C0B7C624 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Ok .....so for all the IFR experts what is a "cruise clearance"? Ron will kn= ow. Second question... What per cent of your total time is actual instrument tim= e? Where is "actual instrument time" defined? Finally, what defines an "actual instrument approach"? Jeff 8+00 St.Louis to Redmond today (darn headwinds) Sent from my iPad On Jan 22, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Don Karich wrote: > i agree that it is a common clearance but it is an instrument clearance an= d IFR rules prevail. If IMC is anticipated then one needs clearance from ATC= prior to entering. The controllers assume that you are IFR qualified, IFR c= urrent in make and model. Its only if something goes wrong that the Feds wil= l come calling and you better have the i's dotted and the t's crossed. If yo= ur VFR, then you are to remain clear of clouds at all time. When going up y= ou are supposed to get a clearance from atc and have to read it back. Inboun= d you have to ask for clearance and readbck prior to entering IMC. If not if= r qualified then you should advise atc that you are unable. They are providi= ng separation from other traffic who are anticipating a sterile pathway. > On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Danny wrote: > Don, >=20 > No, it=E2=80=99s you who is wrong. IFR to VFR on top is a common clearanc= e, especially in places such as southern CA where an early morning and late e= vening marine layer is common. I=E2=80=99ve done it so many times I=E2=80=99= ve lost count, not that anybody was counting in the first place. Raise your= awareness. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Danny >=20 > LNC2-360 >=20 > N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" >=20 > W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" >=20 > Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Don Karich [mailto:donkarich@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:25 PM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Re: WPR13FA076 >=20 > =20 >=20 > My one word response was a clue that you definitely need to discuss this w= ith a CFII. You are soo wrong >=20 > On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Paul Miller wrote: >=20 > Yep Skip, another waste of everyone's time and non-helpful response ("wron= g"). The fact is I have done exactly the same thing, VFR Flight, needed an= IFR clearance to VFR conditions without a flight plan. My last was in the L= egacy at night with a layer on top of the destination airport. I asked appr= oach for a IFR descent clearance from 4000 to 2000 through the clouds, got i= t, broke out and cancelled, landed VFR. In the last 5 years I've found cont= rollers extremely willing to be helpful to VFR pilots who ask for assistance= . >=20 > Paul > Legacy >=20 > On 2013-01-21, at 12:37 PM, "Skip Slater" wrote: >=20 > > Possibly IFR to VFR on top, then cancel. I've done that a couple of tim= es to take off from coastal airports with a marine layer that only extended a= few miles inland. Don't need a flight plan to do that. > > > > Skip Slater > > >=20 > > -- >=20 >=20 > > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.h= tml >=20 >=20 > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.htm= l > =20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-0DC438A5-018A-41DB-A860-74B6C0B7C624 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Ok .....so for all the IFR= experts what is a "cruise clearance"? Ron will know.

Second question... What per cent of your total time is actual instrument t= ime?

Where is "actual instrument time" defined?

Finally, what defines an "actual instrument approach"?=

Jeff
8+00 St.Louis to Redmond today (dar= n headwinds)

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 22, 2013, at 4:44= PM, Don Karich <donkarich@gmail.c= om> wrote:

i a= gree that it is a common clearance but it is an instrument clearance and IFR= rules prevail. If IMC is anticipated then one needs clearance from ATC prio= r to entering. The controllers assume that you are IFR qualified, IFR curren= t in make and model. Its only if something goes wrong that the Feds will com= e calling and you better have the i's dotted and the t's crossed. If your VFR= ,  then you are to remain clear of clouds at all time. When going up yo= u are supposed to get a clearance from atc and have to read it back. Inbound= you have to ask for clearance and readbck prior to entering IMC. If not ifr= qualified then you should advise atc that you are unable. They are providin= g separation from other traffic who are anticipating a sterile pathway.
On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Danny <danny@n10= 7sd.com> wrote:

Don,=

No, it=E2=80=99s you who i= s wrong.  IFR to VFR on top is a common clearance, especia= lly in places such as southern CA where an early morning and late evening ma= rine layer is common.  I=E2=80=99ve done it so many times I= =E2=80=99ve lost count, not that anybody was counting in the first place.  Raise your awareness.

 

Danny

LNC2-360

N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6"

Nothing is foolproof to a= sufficiently talented fool.

 

From: Don Karich [mailto:donkarich@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 20= 13 3:25 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: WPR13FA076=

 

My one word response was a c= lue that you definitely need to discuss this with a CFII. You are soo wrong<= u>

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

Yep Skip, another waste of everyone's time and non-helpf= ul response ("wrong").   The fact is I have done exactly the same thing= , VFR Flight, needed an IFR clearance to VFR conditions without a flight pla= n.  My last was in the Legacy at night with a layer on top of the desti= nation airport.  I asked approach for a IFR descent clearance from 4000= to 2000 through the clouds, got it, broke out and cancelled, landed VFR. &n= bsp;In the last 5 years I've found controllers extremely willing to be helpf= ul to VFR pilots who ask for assistance.

Paul
Legacy

On 2013-01-21, at 12:37 PM, "Skip Slater" <skipslater@verizon.net= > wrote:

> Possibly IFR to VFR on top, then cancel.  I've done that a cou= ple of times to take off from coastal airports with a marine layer that only= extended a few miles inland.  Don't need a flight plan to do that.
= >
> Skip Slater
>

=

> --=20

http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/li= sts/lml/List.html


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