Just occurs to me maybe there is some validity to the semantics theory. Once you air file for IFR to VFR on top and declare you are in VMC you are then flying VFR altitudes at pilot's discretion but still on an IFR flight plan. Only when you cancel the IFR clearance are you on your own and no longer under obligation to ATC. Could this be the confusion? Of course, you would usually cancel as soon as you break through so you can continue on your way with freedom, but it doesn't alter the fact that you're under ATC control until you do cancel. Am I correct? John Barrett Sent from my iPad
Don:
First of all, I am a CFII and have not only taught in IMC conditions, but have flown cargo operations in IMC/IFR situations without a flight plan.
There are many times where you can have an IFR clearance without a flight plan. Tower in route clearance is a perfect example. VFR on top is another. Yes, it is an IFR *Clearance* but it does NOT require a flight plan. However, you can be on an IFR flight plan and get a VFR on Top clearance. I think this is semantics, and as usual get 10 pilots (or engineers :-P ) in the same room and get different opinions.
Nevertheless, you absolutely can be VFR on Top without a flight plan. Don, I'm sure you are a knowledgable pilot, but suggesting that everyone is wrong and to consult a CFII should be backed up by you consulting a CFII (or how about the AIM, for example) before you accuse people of being wrong.
Paul Besing ATP, CFII
Don, No, it’s you who is wrong. IFR to VFR on top is a common clearance, especially in places such as southern CA where an early morning and late evening marine layer is common. I’ve done it so many times I’ve lost count, not that anybody was counting in the first place. Raise your awareness. Danny LNC2-360 N 38° 43' 25.7" W 77° 30' 38.6" Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. My one word response was a clue that you definitely need to discuss this with a CFII. You are soo wrong Yep Skip, another waste of everyone's time and non-helpful response ("wrong"). The fact is I have done exactly the same thing, VFR Flight, needed an IFR clearance to VFR conditions without a flight plan. My last was in the Legacy at night with a layer on top of the destination airport. I asked approach for a IFR descent clearance from 4000 to 2000 through the clouds, got it, broke out and cancelled, landed VFR. In the last 5 years I've found controllers extremely willing to be helpful to VFR pilots who ask for assistance.
Paul
Legacy On 2013-01-21, at 12:37 PM, "Skip Slater" <skipslater@verizon.net> wrote:
> Possibly IFR to VFR on top, then cancel. I've done that a couple of times to take off from coastal airports with a marine layer that only extended a few miles inland. Don't need a flight plan to do that.
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> Skip Slater
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