X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:44:23 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from mail-ie0-f177.google.com ([209.85.223.177] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6024442 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 16:22:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.223.177; envelope-from=donkarich@gmail.com Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id k13so12478635iea.22 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:21:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.91.169 with SMTP id cf9mr13069604igb.44.1358889691132; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.71.74 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:21:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: X-Original-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:21:30 -0800 X-Original-Message-ID: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: WPR13FA076 From: Don Karich X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f3b9dad54336804d3e7295f --e89a8f3b9dad54336804d3e7295f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i agree that it is a common clearance but it is an instrument clearance and IFR rules prevail. If IMC is anticipated then one needs clearance from ATC prior to entering. The controllers assume that you are IFR qualified, IFR current in make and model. Its only if something goes wrong that the Feds will come calling and you better have the i's dotted and the t's crossed. If your VFR, then you are to remain clear of clouds at all time. When going up you are supposed to get a clearance from atc and have to read it back. Inbound you have to ask for clearance and readbck prior to entering IMC. If not ifr qualified then you should advise atc that you are unable. They are providing separation from other traffic who are anticipating a sterile pathway. On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Danny wrote: > Don,**** > > No, it=92s you who is wrong. IFR to VFR on top is a common clearance, > especially in places such as southern CA where an early morning and late > evening marine layer is common. I=92ve done it so many times I=92ve lost > count, not that anybody was counting in the first place. Raise your > awareness.**** > > ** ** > > Danny**** > > LNC2-360**** > > N 38=B0 43' 25.7"**** > > W 77=B0 30' 38.6"**** > > Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Don Karich [mailto:donkarich@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:25 PM > *To:* lml@lancaironline.net > *Subject:* [LML] Re: WPR13FA076**** > > ** ** > > My one word response was a clue that you definitely need to discuss this > with a CFII. You are soo wrong**** > > On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Paul Miller wrote:= * > *** > > Yep Skip, another waste of everyone's time and non-helpful response > ("wrong"). The fact is I have done exactly the same thing, VFR Flight, > needed an IFR clearance to VFR conditions without a flight plan. My last > was in the Legacy at night with a layer on top of the destination airport= . > I asked approach for a IFR descent clearance from 4000 to 2000 through t= he > clouds, got it, broke out and cancelled, landed VFR. In the last 5 years > I've found controllers extremely willing to be helpful to VFR pilots who > ask for assistance. > > Paul > Legacy**** > > On 2013-01-21, at 12:37 PM, "Skip Slater" wrote: > > > Possibly IFR to VFR on top, then cancel. I've done that a couple of > times to take off from coastal airports with a marine layer that only > extended a few miles inland. Don't need a flight plan to do that. > > > > Skip Slater > >**** > > > -- > > > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html > > > -- > For archives and unsub > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html**** > > ** ** > --e89a8f3b9dad54336804d3e7295f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i agree that it is a common clearance but it is an instrument clearance and= IFR rules prevail. If IMC is anticipated then one needs clearance from ATC= prior to entering. The controllers assume that you are IFR qualified, IFR = current in make and model. Its only if something goes wrong that the Feds w= ill come calling and you better have the i's dotted and the t's cro= ssed. If your VFR, =A0then you are to remain clear of clouds at all time. W= hen going up you are supposed to get a clearance from atc and have to read = it back. Inbound you have to ask for clearance and readbck prior to enterin= g IMC. If not ifr qualified then you should advise atc that you are unable.= They are providing separation from other traffic who are anticipating a st= erile pathway.
On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Danny <danny@n= 107sd.com> wrote:

Don,

No, it=92s you who is = wrong.=A0 IFR to VFR on top is a common clearance, especially = in places such as southern CA where an early morning and late evening marin= e layer is common.=A0 I=92ve done it so many times I=92ve lost= count, not that anybody was counting in the first place.=A0 R= aise your awareness.

=A0

Danny

LNC2-360=

N 38=B0 43' 25.7&q= uot;

W 77=B0 30' 38.6&q= uot;

Nothing is foolproof t= o a sufficiently talented fool.

=A0

From= : Don Karich [mailto:donkarich@gmail.com] =
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2= 013 3:25 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: WPR13FA07= 6

=A0

My one word response wa= s a clue that you definitely need to discuss this with a CFII. You are soo = wrong

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Paul Miller <pjdmiller@gmail.com= > wrote:

Yep Skip, another waste of everyone's time and non= -helpful response ("wrong"). =A0 The fact is I have done exactly = the same thing, VFR Flight, needed an IFR clearance to VFR conditions witho= ut a flight plan. =A0My last was in the Legacy at night with a layer on top= of the destination airport. =A0I asked approach for a IFR descent clearanc= e from 4000 to 2000 through the clouds, got it, broke out and cancelled, la= nded VFR. =A0In the last 5 years I've found controllers extremely willi= ng to be helpful to VFR pilots who ask for assistance.

Paul
Legacy

On 2013-01-21, at 12:37 PM, "Skip Slater" &l= t;skipslater@ve= rizon.net> wrote:

> Possibly IFR to VFR on top, then cancel. =A0I've done that a c= ouple of times to take off from coastal airports with a marine layer that o= nly extended a few miles inland. =A0Don't need a flight plan to do that= .
>
> Skip Slater
>

=A0


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