X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:52:21 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6010486 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:02:46 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=super_chipmunk@roadrunner.com X-Original-Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=acPjbGUt c=1 sm=0 a=+kuJ7Sa7hUpxs7xJxzDFzQ==:17 a=AeF9CLZUGkAA:10 a=zTVDa7HKqxcA:10 a=doupyKFmAAAA:8 a=0jdEPDWNkkoA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=zZ3sjKR6Loa41tsZg64A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=DNEv3uQ8dJUA:10 a=CVU0O5Kb7MsA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=0vUscowIxtUA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=qPrt539AY1rXqef-tZoA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=8gStn_SFdpXUvB_x:21 a=+kuJ7Sa7hUpxs7xJxzDFzQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 76.179.81.18 Received: from [76.179.81.18] ([76.179.81.18:54713] helo=WilliamHP) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 2A/D9-26261-42763F05; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:02:12 +0000 X-Original-Message-ID: <4F4BF4508B4F4F448DE08DA9A4158D37@WilliamHP> From: "Bill Wade" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [LML] Oxygen suggestions X-Original-Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:02:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006C_01CDF1D1.40F6AFE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01CDF1D1.40F6AFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks everyone! I=E2=80=99m taking Colyn=E2=80=99s thread suggestion = to help anyone searching the archives. I have the feeling that if I had decompression, rapid or otherwise, = I=E2=80=99d want as little to think about as possible. For that reason I = might favor a built-in system, like Colyn=E2=80=99s arrangement with a = control switch that=E2=80=99s easy to get at. I think Mountain = High=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CRCV Desmo=E2=80=9D system looks like a very = simple setup, with a remote tank fill and a mechanical pressure gauge = that can be mounted in the pilot=E2=80=99s view.=20 The other option might be a bracket-mounted portable fixed to the back = of the copilot seat so the gauge faces the pilot. That seems to me at = this point to be the simplest, cleanest solution. I distrust bags- = things tend to rotate in them and if you=E2=80=99re reaching back trying = to attach or turn something single handed it can be very difficult. = Mountain High has a four-place plug-in regulator that mounts directly to = the cylinder- I could imagine having the mask(s) already plugged in so = it would be a matter of turning on the cylinder valve and donning the = mask. The downside is I might have other issues to deal with so a = built-in might be worth the extra expense. Knee room for a rear seat = passenger might be a problem as well. I think either one would be easy to flow test as Jeff suggested. Trouble is- I can=E2=80=99t seem to find much info from the listed = dealers so I can get some idea on pricing of various options. I checked = Spruce and didn=E2=80=99t find much that was helpful- Lancair has an = emergency system that looks promising for a seat-back install. Where = have people bought their systems? Directly from Mountain High? Thanks very much- Bill Wade From: Paul Miller=20 Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:51 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: [LML] Oxygen suggestions [having a useful Subject Line can help those looking at LML history ]=20 When I did research on adding O2 to the TBM 700, I discovered we did not = need the $60,000 STC with auto drop down masks and all the electronics = that Socata said was necessary. For passengers, have the mask on their = lap and accessible was sufficient. For pilots, I could add a Mountain = portable tank to my back seat. Scott second-hand pressure demand masks = were available (that time for $600) and could be reached and donned in a = matter of seconds. If you want emergency setup with little delay in = receiving O2 I would think that is the way to go, not cannula for the = flying pilot. Installed behind the copilot seat, you reach, pull it on = and flow. =20 I think the cost of that setup would be $1000 or so and you would have = maybe the best possible arrangement in a small plane for those worried = about speed of delivery. Paul Legacy On 2013-01-13, at 2:28 AM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote: Bill,=20 Great questions. The ultimate answer is this is really a life or death = decision. About once or twice a year some pilot runs out of O2 above = 20K' and drills along until the plane runs out of fuel.=20 So- O2 switch should be in front of you-- not on floor, behind seat = etc.=20 Mask definitely.=20 Around your neck. Preflight system before takeoff to ensure proper flow.. especially if = bottle is remotely mounted.=20 Practice-- at night blindfolded with Tim's mum in law screaming at = you.=20 You would be surprised how stupid one can get at FL250 when the cabin = depressurizes and how little time (seconds) it takes. All the stuff you = hear about "time of useful consciousness" applies to a healthy cardio = fit 25 year old lieutenant flying an F/A-18. It does not IMHO apply to a = 60 year old out of shape fat guy in a Lancair!=20 Jeff (remember I am also the same wimpy guy that said do not practice = stalls in a Lancair so take this with a grain of salt) For starters, if there was a=20 rapid decompression at altitude how quickly can a system be activated? = Mask=20 or cannula- should they be worn around your neck and plugged in just in=20 case? -----Original Message----- From: Bill Wade To: lml Sent: Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:18 pm Subject: [LML] Re: LML roots I agree. I've never used an oxygen system before but would like to = install=20 an emergency system in the IV-P I'm building. For starters, if there was = a=20 rapid decompression at altitude how quickly can a system be activated? = Mask=20 or cannula- should they be worn around your neck and plugged in just in=20 case? Flow adjustments- I don't know enough yet to even ask intelligent=20 questions. Thanks- Bill Wade -----Original Message-----=20 From: Greenbacks, UnLtd. Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:40 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: LML roots I for one, would like to see LML return to its roots because in my=20 experience, it's been adrift for a while. In other words, discussion of=20 building techniques and problem solving and best building practices=20 generally as they apply to our Lancairs. As well as interspersed with=20 discussion of how to safely and responsibly fly what a lot of us put together in our=20 basements over many years. How about the topic of approach to stalls and = spin avoidance. Gee, we haven't heard much on this subject in quite a = while.=20 :-) How about portable oxygen solutions, is there a clear winner out = there?=20 I plan to test the upper end of the altitude envelope in my 360 this = year so=20 I need to know. And as for pre purchase advise for a 235/320/360, do your homework and = go=20 get a ride or 2 or 3 or more. Is there anyone left out there who does = not=20 know that the 235 gross weight was increased to 1500 lbs over 14yrs ago? Oh, and here's a suggestion that may send a few people running for the=20 hills, opinions may be interesting but really ought to be backed up by = fact. Cheers, Angier Ames N4ZQ -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html=20 -- For archives and unsub = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01CDF1D1.40F6AFE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  Thanks everyone! I=E2=80=99m taking Colyn=E2=80=99s thread = suggestion to help anyone=20 searching the archives.
 
  I have the feeling that if I had decompression, rapid or = otherwise,=20 I=E2=80=99d want as little to think about as possible. For that reason I = might favor a=20 built-in system, like Colyn=E2=80=99s arrangement with a control switch = that=E2=80=99s easy to=20 get at. I think Mountain High=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CRCV Desmo=E2=80=9D = system looks like a very simple=20 setup, with a remote tank fill and a mechanical pressure gauge that can = be=20 mounted in the pilot=E2=80=99s view.
 
The other option might be a bracket-mounted portable fixed to the = back of=20 the copilot seat so the gauge faces the pilot. That seems to me at this = point to=20 be the simplest, cleanest solution. I distrust bags- things tend to = rotate in=20 them and if you=E2=80=99re reaching back trying to attach or turn = something single=20 handed it can be very difficult. Mountain High has a four-place plug-in=20 regulator that mounts directly to the cylinder- I could imagine having = the=20 mask(s) already plugged in so it would be a matter of turning on the = cylinder=20 valve and donning the mask. The downside is I might have other issues to = deal=20 with so a built-in might be worth the extra expense. Knee room for a = rear seat=20 passenger might be a problem as well.
 
  I think either one would be easy to flow test as Jeff=20 suggested.
 
  Trouble is- I can=E2=80=99t seem to find much info from the = listed dealers=20 so I can get some idea on pricing of various options. I checked Spruce = and=20 didn=E2=80=99t find much that was helpful- Lancair has an emergency = system that looks=20 promising for a seat-back install. Where have people bought their = systems?=20 Directly from Mountain High?
 
Thanks very much- Bill Wade
 
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:51 PM
Subject: [LML] Oxygen suggestions
 
[having=20 a useful Subject Line can help those looking at LML history ]=20
 
When I did research on adding O2 to the TBM 700, I discovered we = did not=20 need the $60,000 STC with auto drop down masks and all the electronics = that=20 Socata said was necessary.   For passengers, have the mask on = their=20 lap and accessible was sufficient.  For pilots, I could add a = Mountain=20 portable tank to my back seat.   Scott second-hand pressure = demand=20 masks were available (that time for $600) and could be reached and = donned in a=20 matter of seconds.  If you want emergency setup with little delay = in=20 receiving O2 I would think that is the way to go, not cannula for the = flying=20 pilot.  Installed behind the copilot seat, you reach, pull it on = and=20 flow. 
 
I think the cost of that setup would be $1000 or so and you would = have=20 maybe the best possible arrangement in a small plane for those worried = about=20 speed of delivery.
 
Paul
Legacy
On 2013-01-13, at 2:28 AM, vtailjeff@aol.com wrote:
Bill,=20
 
Great questions. = The ultimate=20 answer is this is really a life or death decision. About once or twice = a year=20 some pilot runs out of O2 above 20K' and drills along until the plane = runs out=20 of fuel.
 
So- O2 switch = should be in=20 front of you-- not on floor, behind seat etc.
 
Mask definitely. =
 
Around your = neck.
 
Preflight = system before=20 takeoff to ensure proper flow.. especially if bottle is remotely = mounted.=20
 
Practice-- at night blindfolded with = Tim's mum in=20 law screaming at you.

You would be surprised how stupid one = can get at=20 FL250 when the cabin depressurizes and how little time (seconds) it = takes. All=20 the stuff you hear about "time of useful consciousness" applies to a = healthy=20 cardio fit 25 year old lieutenant flying an F/A-18. It does not IMHO = apply to=20 a 60 year old out of shape fat guy in a Lancair!

Jeff
(remember I am also the same wimpy = guy that said=20 do not practice stalls in a Lancair so take this with a grain of=20 salt)


 
 
For starters, if there was a=20
rapid decompression at altitude how quickly can a system be activated? =
Mask=20
or cannula- should they be worn around your neck and plugged in just in=20
case?



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Bill Wade <super_chipmunk@roadrunner.c= om>
To:=20 lml <lml@lancaironline.net>
Se= nt:=20 Sat, Jan 12, 2013 12:18 pm
Subject: [LML] Re: LML roots

I agree. I've never used an oxygen system =
before but would like to install=20
an emergency system in the IV-P I'm building. For starters, if there was =
a=20
rapid decompression at altitude how quickly can a system be activated? =
Mask=20
or cannula- should they be worn around your neck and plugged in just in=20
case? Flow adjustments- I don't know enough yet to even ask intelligent=20
questions. Thanks- Bill Wade

-----Original Message-----=20
From: Greenbacks, UnLtd.
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:40 AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: LML roots

I for one, would like to see LML return to its roots because in my=20
experience, it's been adrift for a while. In other words, discussion of=20
building techniques and problem solving and best building practices=20
generally as they apply to our Lancairs. As well as interspersed with=20
discussion of
how to safely and responsibly fly what a lot of us put together in our=20
basements over many years. How about the topic of approach to stalls and =

spin avoidance. Gee, we haven't heard much on this subject in quite a =
while.=20
:-) How about portable oxygen solutions, is there a clear winner out =
there?=20
I plan to test the upper end of the altitude envelope in my 360 this =
year so=20
I need to know.
And as for pre purchase advise for a 235/320/360, do your homework and =
go=20
get a ride or 2 or 3 or more. Is there anyone left out there who does =
not=20
know that the 235 gross weight was increased to 1500 lbs over 14yrs ago?
Oh, and here's a suggestion that may send a few people running for the=20
hills, opinions may be interesting but really ought to be backed up by =
fact.


Cheers,

Angier Ames
N4ZQ
--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html =




--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html
 
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