This certainly isn't a new discussion and like Gary has mentioned, 
        there is no single silver bullet to answer it. I've been in the thick of 
        things in past discussions but have tried to stay in the bleachers this 
        time and observe the discussion. A couple clarifications that I see 
        [keep in mind I'm Canadian and our rules are 'slightly' different, but 
        not by much] and some-more 'opinion' to add to the mix:
        
 
        
1-It was mentioned that pilots of twin engine planes don't do 
        stall training,which [in Canada] is false, I do approach to stall 
        training every year while training and flight testing for my PPC on the 
        C425XP that I fly [for work]. Stall recovery is great... bring it up to 
        max torque and hold the pitch angle.. it immediately transitions from 
        many hundreds fpm of decent to a couple thousand fpm of climb.. a 
        really interesting experience compared to the same thing in a single 
        [push, power, recover].
        
2-In Canada spin demonstrations AND training is a required step in 
        getting your private license, including w/ an instructor and solo 
        spins and has to be demonstrated on the flight test. I can't remember 
        the last time I heard of a spin training accident [in Canada], it's been 
        many years. 
        
3-In Canada low alt single engine ops are part of the multi training 
        curriculum, including a complete shutdown and restart of the engine 
        [I've got pic's of my training, prop feathered and hanging out in the 
        breeze] and an approach AND landing needs to be demonstrated [one engine 
        in-op] and signed off as completed before you'll get your ride 
        approval to take your flight test. Again, I can't remember the last time 
        I heard of a twin engine training accident due to single engine ops [in 
        Canada].
        
4-The thought that Jets aren't tested in slow flight [and 
        slower] is false as well, all of these jets are fully tested before 
        being signed off an 'released' for production. All pilots in training 
        then fly these maneuvers while doing type training [in simulators which 
        duplicate the tested results]. If you think that once you get your 
        Airline Transport License your done w/ stall/approach to 
        stall training for the rest of your flying career, your 
        mistaken.
        
 
        
I don't think anyone on the list advocating stall 
        testing these planes, is saying these planes need to be "deep 
        stalled". However, approach to stall and recovery at the first sign of 
        stall is, in my opinion, valuable training/testing of a new airframe. 
        Unfortunately, while everyone avoids the stall side of the envelope, 
        this doesn't mean the plane can't or won't [at some point] get to that 
        flight condition. To think otherwise is [again my opinion] 'Titanic 
        like' thinking [when they calculated how many life boats and vests they 
        needed].
        
 
        
The 'blanket perspective' that high performance aircraft 
        are not safe in the slow speed corner of the envelope is false, look at 
        the PC-12 [Cruise at 260-280+knts yet land at less than 90knts, heck 
        they call it a STOL airplane in some publications!] or the C425 I fly, 
        [Cruise at 285knts, land at less than 100 and stalls as viciously 
        as .. well.. it ain't vicious at all], Malibu, Meridian, TBM.. 
        there are lots of higher performance aircraft out there that fly well in 
        all corners of the envelope, it just so happens that Lancair's mandate 
        was speed at all costs and the limited nature of the R&D program to 
        clean these issues up were not pushed as far as they 
        maybe could have been, at least if they had people would have a better 
        "jumping off point" to tame the stalls of their individual aircraft. 
        Couple this with the small variances plane to plane due to building 
        tolerances, ever increasing gross weights and you get a plane w/ 
        potentially a nasty stall. That isn't to say that it's not 'tameable' or 
        correctable should it have more 'teeth' than expected.
        
 
        
I guess if I'm going to fly w/ anyone else in my Lancair, I see it as 
        my duty to at least test to the stall and know how it behaves before I 
        convince someone else to come for a ride. I'd rather kill myself in the 
        testing than possibly myself and my 5yr old son or 3yr old daughter 
        [both of which have been 'biten' by the bug and LOVE flying w/ me in the 
        425] or my wife or my mother or father etc etc. I want my family to 
        enjoy what I've built but I couldn't feel good/safe about it if I 
        didn't fully vet it and test those [potentially] darker corners of 
        the envelope. I couldn't imagine how I'd feel if I'd had an 
        'incident' which snowballs into loss of life etc.[of course after 'loss 
        of life' I'm not 'thinking or feeling' anything but that ride 
        down to 0 from 10,000ft while being out of control... I'm 
        pretty sure I'd be thinking, esp w/ a family member along for the 
        ride..  that's the stuff of nightmares..<shutter>]
        
 
        
In my opinion, if your going to take other innocent individuals for a 
        'ride' in the plane at a later date, then it should be tested at 
        both ends of the envelope prior to their experience. At least 
        tested to the stall point [not nesc a deep stall and not 
        intentionally to spin it but at least know where it stalls and how it 
        recovers etc] and to Vne [plus the required margin] to ensure there 
        is no flutter at that end of the spectrum either. Most of these planes 
        are assigned a 20hr[min] to 40hr test period, what else is there to do 
        for 40hrs in the prescribed 40nm test zone?
        
 
        
If on the other hand your not going to fly anyone else in your plane 
        but just go out and enjoy it yourself, then have at er' in any way you 
        see fit.
        
 
        
I will be 'approach to stall' testing my plane, Heck I might even go 
        as far as to build a spin chute system for it and I'll be doing it 
        w/ a personal chute on as well [I've survived skydives a couple 
        times] that is, when-ever it gets done... [geez it's been 
        'in-progress' for years.. sigh... ]
        
 
        
Jarrett Johnson
        
235/320 55% [and currently holding]
        
 
        
        
          
          
          
I don't know if there is a single right or wrong answer to this 
          controversy, but here are a couple of observations:
          
Years ago, twin engine training required demonstration of 
          low-altitude engine-out proficiency.  That requirement was 
          dropped and the overall safety improved.  Years ago, spin 
          demonstrations were required and then dropped - safety improved.  
          Another observation:  All that have sided with stall training 
          have warned about keeping coordinated (ball in the center).  I 
          doubt that ANY inadvertent stall is accompanied by a centered 
          ball.  I haven't stalled my ES.
          
Gary Casey
          
 
          
          
            
            
I 
            have made the decision prior to purchasing to avoid stalls 
            altogether in my 360. After reading the stall and stall spin 
            accident information, I just don't think it's worth the risk. On 
            take-off, I stay in ground effect for the half second it takes to 
            make it into the green after wheels up; on landing, I approach well 
            above stall for my flap configuration, and let the speed bleed off 
            only a few feet above the threshold. During normal flight, I don't 
            even get near a typical slow flight speed. Too many variables in a 
            home built airplane with no precise envelope, a header tank that is 
            PROBABLY where I think it is, but could be off by 30 or 40 pounds if 
            the gauge is stuck; possible extra wait in the tail area (water 
            retention after heavy 
          rain).