X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 07:37:49 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0) with ESMTP id 5971851 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 28 Dec 2012 07:09:00 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.97; envelope-from=vtailjeff@aol.com Received: from mtaout-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.5]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id AA710380000A4 for ; Fri, 28 Dec 2012 07:08:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.119] (24-107-65-42.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.65.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 41E85E0000E3; Fri, 28 Dec 2012 07:08:27 -0500 (EST) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B7C08C3C-74D4-4121-BFC7-372609C9868D X-Original-Message-Id: <084B5C71-2648-44E2-B25F-ADCD5D7B0375@aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: vtailjeff@aol.com Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Seat Belt update Legacy X-Original-Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:08:23 -0600 X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:480193792:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290550dd8bb93b91 X-AOL-IP: 24.107.65.42 --Apple-Mail-B7C08C3C-74D4-4121-BFC7-372609C9868D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Check the advisory circular on seatbelt installation. Jeff Sent from my iPad On Dec 27, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sky2high@aol.com wrote: > Gents, > =20 > The shoulder strap ends should not be mounted lower than one's shoulders a= s this could cause a compression of the spine in an accident. > =20 > Grayhawk > =20 > In a message dated 12/27/2012 8:54:41 A.M. Central Standard Time, sdfields= 68@att.net writes: > Hello Paul, >=20 > =20 >=20 > I would like to know more about how you mounted the shoulder straps. I am p= lanning to do the same and don't need to re-invent what you've already done.= >=20 > =20 >=20 > Stan Fields >=20 > L2KR/G # 201 >=20 > Austin >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Pau= l Miller > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:58 PM > To: lml@lancaironline.net > Subject: [LML] Seat Belt update Legacy >=20 > =20 >=20 > I made a safety and comfort upgrade with my Legacy recently and installed 6= -point Simpson belts. Here are the details and a few things to consider bas= ed on input from safety expert Butch Stevens of Simpson who supplied the new= belts: >=20 > =20 >=20 > 1) I removed the inertial reels based on Butch's recommendation because re= els are not reliable in high-G impacts. I also shortened the shoulder stra= ps and bolted them behind the seats. Belts stretch 15% in an accident so i= f you want maximum protection from panel impact, remove the long straps from= the roof and shorten them as much as possible. >=20 > =20 >=20 > 2) These Simpson belts and hardware are rated to 14,000 pounds. Testing s= hows that most 3,000 lb rated belts don't make that figure. Butch's Citabr= ia belts only tested to 1800lb before failure. Original hardware on our TB= M 700s failed at 600lb before we complained and an AD came out on the French= hardware. Butch's tests on Hooker failed at less than 3,000lb. >=20 > =20 >=20 > 3) Belts lose 50% of their strength in two years from sunlight exposure. >=20 > =20 >=20 > 4) High G pullups and crashes without the 6-points (crotch straps) often f= ind the pilot squeezed down near the rudder pedals because they slide undern= eath the lap belts. You must have the 6 points to avoid this problem. >=20 > =20 >=20 > I installed the crotch straps to the same mounting point with the lap belt= s. I don't believe the mounting location of the lap belt on the center cons= ole will hold 3,000 lbs from what I saw on the Legacy so I will have to revi= ew that at a later date. I believe the hard point on the seat back and the f= uselage will probably hold. I was thinking maybe of bonding an attach point t= o the rear spar but I have no data yet on how that might work for the crotch= straps. >=20 > =20 >=20 > The incremental cost was low for me. I sold the old hardware, TSO'd belts= and reels on ebay for $250 to a Alaska pilot. This setup from Simpson is a= vailable for $299 which is inexpensive for the high quality and ability to h= andle higher loads and shocks. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =46rom a comfort perspective, many of my flights are cross country and the= inertial reels always had me bouncing around the cockpit going through Mont= ana in the afternoon or in Texas during the summer. With these hard poin= ts, I cinch down and become one with the airplane. Control is better in tur= bulence and I feel liked I'm locked in a little tighter. The setup is comfo= rtable during long flights. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Contact me if you'd like more info on how I attached these shoulder straps= or if you have data on mounting the other points. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Paul >=20 > Spruce Creek >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 --Apple-Mail-B7C08C3C-74D4-4121-BFC7-372609C9868D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Check the advisory circular on seatbelt installation.

Jeff

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 27, 2012, at 5:26 PM, Sky2high@aol.com wrote:

Gents,
 
The shoulder strap ends should not be mounted lower than one's shoulders as this could cause a compression of the spine in an accident.
 
Grayhawk
 
In a message dated 12/27/2012 8:54:41 A.M. Central Standard Time, sdfields68@att.net writes:

Hello Paul,

 

I would like to know more about how you mounted the shoulder straps. I am planning to do the same and don't need to re-invent what you've already done.

 

Stan Fields

L2KR/G # 201

Austin

 

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Paul Miller
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:58 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Seat Belt update Legacy

 

I made a safety and comfort upgrade with my Legacy recently and installed 6-point Simpson belts.  Here are the details and a few things to consider based on input from safety expert Butch Stevens of Simpson who supplied the new belts:

 

1) I removed the inertial reels based on Butch's recommendation because reels are not reliable in high-G impacts.   I also shortened the shoulder straps and bolted them behind the seats.   Belts stretch 15% in an accident so if you want maximum protection from panel impact, remove the long straps from the roof and shorten them as much as possible.

 

2) These Simpson belts and hardware are rated to 14,000 pounds.   Testing shows that most 3,000 lb rated belts don't make that figure.   Butch's Citabria belts only tested to 1800lb before failure.   Original hardware on our TBM 700s failed at 600lb before we complained and an AD came out on the French hardware.  Butch's tests on Hooker failed at less than 3,000lb.

 

3) Belts lose 50% of their strength in two years from sunlight exposure.

 

4) High G pullups and crashes without the 6-points (crotch straps) often find the pilot squeezed down near the rudder pedals because they slide underneath the lap belts.  You must have the 6 points to avoid this problem.

 

I installed the crotch straps to the same mounting point with the lap belts.  I don't believe the mounting location of the lap belt on the center console will hold 3,000 lbs from what I saw on the Legacy so I will have to review that at a later date.  I believe the hard point on the seat back and the fuselage will probably hold. I was thinking maybe of bonding an attach point to the rear spar but I have no data yet on how that might work for the crotch straps.

 

The incremental cost was low for me.  I sold the old hardware, TSO'd belts and reels on ebay for $250 to a Alaska pilot.  This setup from Simpson is available for $299 which is inexpensive for the high quality and ability to handle higher loads and shocks.

 

From a comfort perspective, many of my flights are cross country and the inertial reels always had me bouncing around the cockpit going through Montana in the afternoon or in Texas during the summer.  With these hard points, I cinch down and become one with the airplane.  Control is better in turbulence and I feel liked I'm locked in a little tighter.  The setup is comfortable during long flights.

 

Contact me if you'd like more info on how I attached these shoulder straps or if you have data on mounting the other points.

 

Paul

Spruce Creek

 

 

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