X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:22:08 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm15.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.85] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with SMTP id 5678153 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 25 Jul 2012 20:02:52 -0400 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.85; envelope-from=browncc1@verizon.net Received: from [98.139.91.62] by nm15.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2012 00:02:17 -0000 Received: from [68.142.200.227] by tm2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2012 00:01:16 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.115] by t8.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2012 00:01:16 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1020.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jul 2012 00:01:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 858686.94549.bm@omp1020.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 55267 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2012 00:01:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: kdd7AYYVM1keyrerXOfffJF.9uq_RYcTq96w5Gz4FEnJoQO v9C5kK40Ara5ejryaKZL3maSWFjQjDjoWqEQfuB21__pNu_hgVW0fW0Sp.eu FI8t8hM.C31.pAi44UccIe5pWxSxkW78e_bwG51LhtFNN7sdGlRsbfcAuB6_ qqQOremO_Aub4ePxWTmApAn5WMirQdfAPDj.hVqvd6vVadDQFs8Nw..u7EVi 6txEbEexKrkiraUAPOx5fd6UYXe3YVWt9P9f.wx9UJvjF_r4Q1k6ebDVe062 pj78X5E8rfQu.QkTyYfT8RPunXD7iMMldyXD7Cj77V55xDSvFVgF7V_ohG_4 34Ha2UrW0KMrMBeC27BhDwZoIPT9CCk43DmrIxi2WNoc9tuTxYf1M1yU42nu j9EtGlyKQ4fiBu9Y3UaqBe1nb1Z_rY3stgIlc6mr4diAEHRD8b5upBsU8nta vee9n8.dC_kFJS1Q7pXrGMR6hFrGZDYq514RDIcB4EoECJEif4m8jJBEQHcG HtwKtR9mKMuv.569IvzuHo9BNzWkfLsu7dxQxqIiHOwuKH4TBXDIcAUIjvXs 67F7eK40J3sz6Rn96UL3UoaywDedaHFt9sGpQvu7QLOBnQcH5i.ZbOagpqYn dWLAkV98NB0i9f6s5t9dA3WMM6xvlxRP6Lhs- X-Yahoo-SMTP: F49l9g6swBC0R9n8vJIbm7Tf3P8Xlmia8rHIwTlO__Ml Received: from chass-imac-2.home (browncc1@72.64.105.53 with plain) by smtp104.vzn.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2012 17:01:15 -0700 PDT From: Charles Brown Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--118545458 Subject: Re: [LML] New Turbine Engine - want HP and efficiency for your IVP? X-Original-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 19:01:14 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: X-Original-Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-3--118545458 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Conspicuously missing from the diesel specs is the weight of this thing. = And what it does to the CG, having it up in the nose. It's a system = solution, and every answer has tradeoffs. I had a Mooney 252, a phenomenally efficient machine optimized for high = altitude with a well-executed turbo system, oxygen, dual alternators, = dual vacuum pumps. And no payload -- really a 2-person machine with = full fuel. Oh yeah, and because it depended on high altitude to get = true airspeed, it was great going east with the big tailwinds at FL270, = but pathetic going west into those same headwinds. Somebody mentioned a pressurized Velocity -- great, what would the = payload be? The Socata TBM is really a 2-person airplane with full fuel = because of the pressure hull weight; and I recall similar numbers for = the Cessna 340. =20 My solution du jour is a normally aspirated 550 in a Legacy. High IAS = yields high speed at low altitude, totally simple systems. Tradeoffs: = Traversing the Rockies, I have limited options. Also, poor speed = stability on IFR approaches because it flies at or below best L/D = throughout the approach. Sorta like an MU-2 I guess. Much less = forgiving than the Mooney or even the other Lancairs.=20 On Jul 25, 2012, at 7:09 AM, Frederick Moreno wrote: Have a look at this =20 http://www.red-aircraft.com/projects/flight-tests/ =20 And these specs: =20 http://www.red-aircraft.com/engines/red-a03-v12/ Best efficiency is = about 0.344 lbs/hp hour at 400 hp. =20 A quick set of calculations show that 400 HP would burn about 21 gph of = jet fuel and yield about 322 knots compared to TSIO 550 at 75% that = started at 280 knots.=20 =20 Ready to flip out your checkbook?? =20 Fred =20 =20 =20 =20 -------Original Message------- =20 =20 With this kind of engine in the pipeline, = http://www.aopa.org/oshkosh/2012/news/120723cessna-unveils-turbodiesel-182= .html 240HP turbines sucking 28-32 gph are going to have a marketing problem. =20 Wolfgang =20 --Apple-Mail-3--118545458 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Conspicuously missing from the diesel specs is = the weight of this thing.  And what it does to the CG, having it up = in the nose.  It's a system solution, and every answer has = tradeoffs.

I had a Mooney 252, a phenomenally = efficient machine optimized for high altitude with a well-executed turbo = system, oxygen, dual alternators, dual vacuum pumps.  And no = payload -- really a 2-person machine with full fuel.  Oh yeah, and = because it depended on high altitude to get true airspeed, it was great = going east with the big tailwinds at FL270, but pathetic going west into = those same headwinds.

Somebody mentioned a = pressurized Velocity -- great, what would the payload be?  The = Socata TBM is really a 2-person airplane with full fuel because of the = pressure hull weight; and I recall similar numbers for the Cessna 340. =  

My solution du jour is a normally = aspirated 550 in a Legacy.  High IAS yields high speed at low = altitude, totally simple systems.  Tradeoffs:  Traversing the = Rockies, I have limited options.  Also, poor speed stability on IFR = approaches because it flies at or below best L/D throughout the = approach.  Sorta like an MU-2 I guess.  Much less forgiving = than the Mooney or even the other Lancairs. 

On = Jul 25, 2012, at 7:09 AM, Frederick Moreno wrote:

Have a = look at this
 
 
And = these specs:
 
http://www.red-a= ircraft.com/engines/red-a03-v12/  Best efficiency is about = 0.344 lbs/hp hour at 400 hp.
 
A quick set of = calculations show that 400 HP would burn about  21 gph of jet fuel = and yield about 322 knots compared to TSIO 550 at 75% that started at = 280 knots. 
 
Ready to flip out your = checkbook??
 
Fred
 
&nb= sp;
 
 
-------Original = Message-------
 
 
With this kind of engine in the = pipeline,
240HP turbines sucking 28-32 gph are = going to have a marketing = problem.
 
Wolfgang
 

= --Apple-Mail-3--118545458--