X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 09:58:55 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm30-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([98.139.213.126] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with SMTP id 5302248 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 22:16:41 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.213.126; envelope-from=chris_zavatson@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.212.152] by nm30.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2011 03:16:05 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.225] by tm9.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2011 03:16:05 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1034.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2011 03:16:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 58639.83604.bm@omp1034.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 71728 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Dec 2011 03:16:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GSC9TdHu9stHd5G/beEWeO+Fek7osh8OR1BmaSnGbKsZj7HXEW4YYEZq94BsKxKMpreCbRMroj9uNtDF1EcPPeAzsPuilrJ9TKwDCd91vk9CgX3vM/Rq2SPfDV/cHnBi4R9lRLiZLGtMVHNTioYQuV8spdGZLGGVdy5gBHuEAho=; X-YMail-OSG: rEtl7CEVM1kAC_050th36XNGztcZvr_TAmI7TdIdWIB4kZF 88de1bW7Hjuj8CqXxBg1I60dMsnD_ZlswcLC_hXzXvI.8kI5MfX4Myo3qgP3 pobn2ZUo6YPPXgPDO0Iwtw_9LMb5.Vd_YzRbMkb0B3RRPXB2LeYcGsXhny_6 6Vcc0hm13Ch3atQzoZ6ny0j9dS0W.YAoc9WVKBzT9Oo5uhQzKfae_qIdFv2E worJB5SqNspkNaUkFVp_kkXr48z47tdeNHYXUo9g2wtnx0q9Pql7ZWndTq1P 0DiWiM8Yktf15shJpH.7QoxqnU0qRT5_y1WDyAj3fX4VLs.Rr4h2ZxVYs_LV zocIKuTRkoAQTnoa2cm34F6JxUfjwS1XPQOkneosr.R23auEV85TpH3_PwBS bG2ZL12VCBXFR32pXLElWlPAhJDNDNcbfp8Y.7abarkmTlhbqCEHKJvn3kj2 YeZVU5rN.VZ8VJG5xG61prbwwxf8VpRyvUp8xtgr4tYsHgK.rQQBxlmIZfhd 5I1HfI3JfmLv.jXefTLWSTW3r.U6mEWqbiWtkZvibgyvlOKCfQ9kQFVpXJdd 9nQuPUQ-- Received: from [99.137.192.233] by web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 19:16:04 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.115.331698 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1323746164.52112.YahooMailNeo@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 19:16:04 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Zavatson Reply-To: Chris Zavatson Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition System Application X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-2114655128-666843780-1323746164=:52112" ---2114655128-666843780-1323746164=:52112 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Scott,=0A"....., not to mention the induction system=A0limitations inherent= carbureted engines."Now you're on to something..=0AI fear my=A0not-so-idea= l=A0mixture distribution would the limiting factor even with EI.=0AChris=0A= =A0=0AChris Zavatson=0AN91CZ=0A360std=0Awww.N91CZ.net=0A=0AFrom: "Sky2high@= aol.com" =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net =0ASent: Monday, De= cember 12, 2011 10:07 AM=0ASubject: [LML] Re: Electronic Ignition System Ap= plication=0A=0A=0ABrent,=0A=0ANice.=A0 Here is what I liked about ignition = systems I have used:=0A=0A1. Magnetos:=0AUh, I couldn't think of any....=0A= =0A2. LASAR:=0AWiring from magneto body was=A0thru an=A08" pigtail with=A0h= igh quality connectors used in the harness.=A0 This eliminates any problems= from vibration in connectors hard=A0mounted to the device(s) on the engine= .=0A=0A3. Plasma III dual system:=0Aa. interconnected electronics so that i= f one system failed, the other would compensate for=A0the timing difference= when operating on only one plug.=0Ab. Display of fundamental parameters (t= iming=A0delivered by=A0each half, RPM, MAP) so that anomalies may be noted.= =0Ac. Robust crank position sensor.=0Ad. Ability to use=A0large gap Iridium= plugs.=0Ae. Longer, high energy spark to greater ensure the start of every= combustion event.=0Af. The ability to affect the timing based on the Compr= ession Ratio.=0A=0A4. P-Mags=0AUh, haven't used those yet.=0A=0AOf course, = it would be even more interesting to address those engines that are superch= arged or turbocharged, not to mention the induction system=A0limitations in= herent carbureted engines.=0A=0AScott Krueger=0AGetting a lot from the litt= le engine that could.=0A=0A=0AIn a message dated 12/12/2011 6:53:19 A.M. Ce= ntral Standard Time, brent@regandesigns.com writes:=0AA while ago I was app= roached by Monty Barrett of BPA to develop and =0A>ignition system for the = 9 cylinder M14 radial engine. The magnetos for =0A>these engines were out o= f production and unreliable. We applied our =0A>experience designing certif= ied aerospace electronics and came up with a =0A>magneto replacement system= with a Timing Controller that featured an =0A>internal poly-phase alternat= or, manifold pressure sensor, independent =0A>High-Q magnetic flux sensors = and dual microprocessors with cascading =0A>redundancy. Everything is packa= ged in a billet machined, O-ring sealed =0A>MIL-Spec, water and dust proof = anodized housing. The Timing Controller =0A>is coupled to independent "Coil= Near Plug" high energy Smart Coils that =0A>deliver a measured 80+mJ of en= ergy to the spark plasma. The entire =0A>system is rated to 125 degrees C o= perating temperature (257 degF), 10G =0A>=0A>sign-on-random vibration, dire= ct and indirect lightning effects as well =0A>as a host of other DO160F tes= t requirements.=0A>=0A>While we were designing this system it occurred to m= e that I would like =0A>a couple of these on my IV-P, so we designed it so = it could accommodate =0A>6 or 9 cylinder engines. The only difference being= the internal sensor =0A>ratio and firmware.=0A>=0A>The system components h= ave passed qualification testing and the 9 =0A>cylinder system is currently= on the BPA dynamometer undergoing =0A>performance mapping and endurance te= sting. This is where we develop the =0A>advance parameters for RPM and mani= fold pressure. It really isn't =0A>practical to attempt to develop these ad= vance curves without a dynamometer.=0A>=0A>Monty at BPA is currently bookin= g orders for the 9 cylinder M14 system. =0A>The problem with the 6 cylinder= "market" is that there are many =0A>variables and each significant variant= of manufacturer, induction system =0A>and compression ratio needs to be dy= nomometer qualified. So, to solve =0A>this problem Monty will be offering a= significant discount on the =0A>ignition system to select 6 cylinder custo= mers who have BPA perform =0A>their overhaul and consent to having Monty pe= rformance map their engine =0A>after the post overhaul dyanamometer run-in.= =0A>=0A>The reason for the dyno testing is that it is not a good idea to ju= st =0A>make a guess at the correct timing based on RPM and manifold pressur= e =0A>and then go fly. That would be like buying a suit out of a catalog. A= =0A>good outcome is unlikely.=0A>=0A>The attached picture shows the Timing= Controller. It replaces the =0A>magneto and contains the poly phase altern= ator, electronics and manifold =0A>pressure sensor. The MIL-Spec connector = is the interface to the =0A>individual coils. The red cap covers the -4 JIC= threaded fitting for the =0A>manifold pressure connection. Under the blue = cap are the firmware update =0A>connector and integral static timing light.= There is NO separate "Brain =0A>Box" to deal with.=0A>=0A>The system is no= t available for 4 cylinder engines at this time.=0A>=0A>If you are interest= ed, contact BPA http://www.bpaengines.com=0A>=0A>Regards=0A>Brent Regan=0A>= =0A>=0A>=0A>--=0A>For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/l= ists/lml/List.html=0A> ---2114655128-666843780-1323746164=:52112 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Scott,
"....., not to mention the induction system = ;limitations inherent carbureted engines."
Now you're on to som= ething..
I fear my not-s= o-ideal mixture distribution would the l= imiting factor even with EI.
Chris
 
Chris Zavatson
N91CZ
360std

From:= "Sky2high@aol.com" <Sky2high@aol.com>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 10:07 = AM
Subject: [LML] Re: El= ectronic Ignition System Application

Brent,
 
Nice.  Here is what I liked about ignition systems I have used:
 
1. Magnetos:
Uh, I couldn't think of any....
 
2. LASAR:
Wiring from magneto body was thru an 8" pigtail with hi= gh quality connectors used in the harness.  This eliminates any proble= ms from vibration in connectors hard mounted to the device(s) on the e= ngine.
 
3. Plasma III dual system:
a. interconnected electronics so that if one system failed, the other = would compensate for the timing difference when operating on only one = plug.
b. Display of fundamental parameters (timing delivered by ea= ch half, RPM, MAP) so that anomalies may be noted.
c. Robust crank position sensor.
d. Ability to use large gap Iridium plugs.
e. Longer, high energy spark to greater ensure the start of every comb= ustion event.
f. The ability to affect the timing based on the Compression Ratio.
 
4. P-Mags
Uh, haven't used those yet.
 
Of course, it would be even more interesting to address those engines = that are supercharged or turbocharged, not to mention the induction system&= nbsp;limitations inherent carbureted engines.
 
Scott Krueger
Getting a lot from the little engine that could.
 
 
In a message dated 12/12/2011 6:53:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, bren= t@regandesigns.com writes:
A while ago I was approached by Monty Barrett of BPA t= o develop and
ignition system for the 9 cylinder M14 radial engine. The= magnetos for
these engines were out of production and unreliable. We a= pplied our
experience designing certified aerospace electronics and cam= e up with a
magneto replacement system with a Timing Controller that fe= atured an
internal poly-phase alternator, manifold pressure sensor, ind= ependent
High-Q magnetic flux sensors and dual microprocessors with cas= cading
redundancy. Everything is packaged in a billet machined, O-ring = sealed
MIL-Spec, water and dust proof anodized housing. The Timing Cont= roller
is coupled to independent "Coil Near Plug" high energy Smart Coi= ls that
deliver a measured 80+mJ of energy to the spark plasma. The ent= ire
system is rated to 125 degrees C operating temperature (257 degF), 10G=

sign-on-random vibration, direct and indirect lightning effects as= well
as a host of other DO160F test requirements.

While we were= designing this system it occurred to me that I would like
a couple of = these on my IV-P, so we designed it so it could accommodate
6 or 9 cyli= nder engines. The only difference being the internal sensor
ratio and f= irmware.

The system components have passed qualification testing and= the 9
cylinder system is currently on the BPA dynamometer undergoing <= BR>performance mapping and endurance testing. This is where we develop the =
advance parameters for RPM and manifold pressure. It really isn't
p= ractical to attempt to develop these advance curves without a dynamometer.<= BR>
Monty at BPA is currently booking orders for the 9 cylinder M14 syst= em.
The problem with the 6 cylinder "market" is that there are many
variables and each significant variant of manufacturer, induction= system
and compression ratio needs to be dynomometer qualified. So, to= solve
this problem Monty will be offering a significant discount on th= e
ignition system to select 6 cylinder customers who have BPA perform <= BR>their overhaul and consent to having Monty performance map their engine =
after the post overhaul dyanamometer run-in.

The reason for the = dyno testing is that it is not a good idea to just
make a guess at the = correct timing based on RPM and manifold pressure
and then go fly. That= would be like buying a suit out of a catalog. A
good outcome is unlike= ly.

The attached picture shows the Timing Controller. It replaces th= e
magneto and contains the poly phase alternator, electronics and manif= old
pressure sensor. The MIL-Spec connector is the interface to the individual coils. The red cap covers the -4 JIC threaded fitting for the
manifold pressure connection. Under the blue cap are the firmw= are update
connector and integral static timing light. There is NO sepa= rate "Brain
Box" to deal with.

The system is not available for 4= cylinder engines at this time.

If you are interested, contact BPA h= ttp://www.bpaengines.com

Regards
Brent Regan



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