X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:14:50 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from nm4-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.110] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with SMTP id 5174930 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 14:04:52 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.110; envelope-from=tfsent@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.102] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2011 18:04:16 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.92] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2011 18:04:16 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1029.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2011 18:04:16 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 308293.22809.bm@omp1029.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 77660 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Oct 2011 18:04:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=N9OILCqL0EVFyw7X0lF2WVU+373xiULR69fZWEe1gzhYidUQt7nkK+u22Qj6ngGKdiqdG4emRe1Kio+EzXXliUgREmGW5pj2WGEtuRzQVse/HOg7IwgPSpsV/WALz63yeTb+LGdNDQmYUjXw8s6pZEJJxKuQG84MdnmEfua2INQ=; X-YMail-OSG: k2RzYbgVM1m_JGzrcy2DxSecXB1vb_qsR_h9A3VCI62DznC vTDtiA0_.ZHnwK4WQwnWbDQ3jkY5YBgy8lup.KzLXuirb6zGgTu7YP4FVleg NARq3UlOd8RN4FKsBCSTNsqekc3AoeYMvPOdHGkPJJf4dXPzOgMjcG7yiN_X 0RULDhUO86N32MevLiGv0QBcYpJdbek4mGtIVdSUYov2Fder5NYJpt5F1qKH XfOjIs1hPT1YvpYtAQ1MIhWP9J1UoSIbh1GOWVgKGMeIqQ3rDvIQMPKPhDkA DWX18VMzFjdGqwAZhs0wr1TjYpRVs4QUdCE7jDg8f4H8tJ8m8T9CNhgoxNeY UbKybZWNcB7oIhUf.mCzIzQE0ar7Z9yquK9ZVcwc4dmaBEbV8HK3HPpLxlB2 tzc3lsg-- Received: from [72.234.129.7] by web180302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:04:15 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: X-Original-Message-ID: <1319738655.75592.YahooMailNeo@web180302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:04:15 -0700 (PDT) From: thomas williams Reply-To: thomas williams Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Fw: Updated SUMMARY OF LANCAIR ACCIDENTS IN NTSB DATABASE X-Original-To: Lancair Mailing List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2059125599-1319738655=:75592" --0-2059125599-1319738655=:75592 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what surprises me is the number of accidents in the test phase that have 2 = or more people in the plane!!!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________________= __=0AFrom: Kevin Stallard =0ATo: lml@lancaironline.net= =0ASent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:36 AM=0ASubject: [LML] Re: Fw: Update= d SUMMARY OF LANCAIR ACCIDENTS IN NTSB DATABASE=0A=0A=0AAll right, I'll fal= l for the bait :)=0A=0ALook, even with an AOA installed, I could see an und= isciplined pilot=0Apanicking and yanking on the stick because he doesn't kn= ow what else to=0Ado.=0A=0A-Kevin=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AF= rom: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=0ATer= rence O'Neill=0ASent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:44 PM=0ATo: lml@lancair= online.net=0ASubject: [LML] Re: Fw: Updated SUMMARY OF LANCAIR ACCIDENTS IN= NTSB=0ADATABASE=0A=0AJust a brief note:=0ACounting only the sixty-three=A0= 235 and 320 accidents, eleven of the=0Acrashes (17.5%) resulted from the p= ilot pulling his wing past it's stall=0Aangle of attack, for whatever reaso= n.=A0 =0AThis is defining "cause" as the last effective act of a pilot prio= r to=0Ahim losing control. Most of these AOA accidents occurred at too low = an=0Aaltitude to permit possible recovery.=0AIt would be interesting to fin= d out how many of these aircraft had AOAs=0Ainstalled.=0AGenerally, an airp= lane's wing flies (hands off) at the (unstalled) trim=0Aangle, no matter wh= at the attitude. Pilot input is required to bring a=0Awing to an AOA above = stall.=0ADiscussion is invited.=0ATerrence=A0 L235/320 N211AL=0A=0A=0AOn Oc= t 25, 2011, at 8:00 PM, William Rumburg wrote:=0A=0A> Lee Metcalfe took tim= e and effort to update the Lancair Accident=0ASummary he created several ye= ars ago. I'm submitting it for him since he=0Ais no longer active on the LM= L. It's for all of our benefit...read and=0Aheed=0A> =0A> Bill Rumburg=0A> = N403WR (Sonic bOOm) =0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AFor archives and unsub http://mail.lan= caironline.net:81/lists/lml/List.html --0-2059125599-1319738655=:75592 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
what surpr= ises me is the number of accidents in the test phase that have 2 or more pe= ople in the plane!!!


From: Kev= in Stallard <Kevin@arilabs.net>
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:36 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Fw: Updated SUMMARY = OF LANCAIR ACCIDENTS IN NTSB DATABASE

=0A
All right, I'll = fall for the bait :)

Look, even with an AOA installed, I could see a= n undisciplined pilot
panicking and yanking on the stick because he does= n't know what else to
do.

-Kevin



-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.ne= t] On Behalf Of
Terrence O'Neill
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 201= 1 2:44 PM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Fw:= Updated SUMMARY OF LANCAIR ACCIDENTS IN NTSB
DATABASE

Just a bri= ef note:
Counting only the sixty-three  235 and 320 accidents, elev= en of the
crashes (17.5%) resulted from the pilot pulling his wing past = it's stall
angle of attack, for whatever reason. 
This is defi= ning "cause" as the last effective act of a pilot prior to
him losing control. Most of these AOA accidents occurred at too low = an
altitude to permit possible recovery.
It would be interesting to f= ind out how many of these aircraft had AOAs
installed.
Generally, an = airplane's wing flies (hands off) at the (unstalled) trim
angle, no matt= er what the attitude. Pilot input is required to bring a
wing to an AOA = above stall.
Discussion is invited.
Terrence  L235/320 N211AL

On Oct 25, 2011, at 8:00 PM, William Rumburg wrote:

> Le= e Metcalfe took time and effort to update the Lancair Accident
Summary h= e created several years ago. I'm submitting it for him since he
is no lo= nger active on the LML. It's for all of our benefit...read and
heed
&= gt;
> Bill Rumburg
> N403WR (Sonic bOOm)



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