X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:49:05 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from carbinge.com ([69.5.27.218] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5065117 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 09:40:33 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.5.27.218; envelope-from=jbarrett@carbinge.com Received: (qmail 27301 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2011 13:40:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; h=X-Originating-IP:Reply-To:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language; s=default; d=carbinge.com; b=RKcRu6igsmdaPnJJVFP50PacJZuPoF99h8M9Bx43hM5oA7zMW8nZkrqFCZDu/7NJ6lRKKSMsgG8HfxotM0XsgqzrTkovQY8hgrVHAc5Iy+nN68iRQm09kyXcHDUSfNtEJSLldjSrEbQfDha6FjfGuzI9nIysKWOo11klndr1Nf8=; X-Originating-IP: [66.235.58.63] Reply-To: From: "John Barrett" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Correction on IFR/VFR flight plans X-Original-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:39:58 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <027001cc4c62$adfc4980$09f4dc80$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0271_01CC4C28.019D7180" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcxMWQjHJ264njAfSfa74rsrm08nfQAByPYg Content-Language: en-us This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0271_01CC4C28.019D7180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very true and I use flight following maybe more than I should =E2=80=93 = I say that because in the most trying situations, flight following can = fail you and those situations may be the ones where you=E2=80=99re most = likely to get in trouble. =20 Case in point. Yesterday I was coming home from KRDM (working on my IVP = project) to 0S9 on the Washington Olympic Peninsula in my Beech Sierra, = coming north I was beneath a scattered to broken to overcast layer that = was lowering the further north I got. By the time I was clearing the = last of the foothills east of Olympia and south of Tacoma, I was at = 3,500 feet with maybe less than 1,000 feet clearance over the last of = the mts. Seattle approach abruptly calls me and says =E2=80=9Cradar = contact lost, squawk 1200=E2=80=9D etc. =20 =20 This one wasn=E2=80=99t truly that bad a deal but it reminds me I have = been in tighter boxes than that where contact with ATC was extremely = helpful and a smooth transition to IFR was the only sensible solution = if I wanted to continue rather than turn around and retreat. =20 Point is that they can cut you off at the worst times whether for the = above reason or just cuz they=E2=80=99re busy. On the other hand if you = file IFR as someone suggested, then you can just convert to that when = you get a call like this one. But you don=E2=80=99t always need to do = that either and I could have easily simply asked the controller for IFR = handling, told him I could provide my own terrain clearance in a climb = and proceeded that way. =20 =20 99 percent of the time the controllers are much more helpful than this = guy and they=E2=80=99ll watch for you to pop up again, or discuss = options with you. =20 =20 ATC controllers are a great bunch to work with but occasionally things = can get vexing and hairy when someone in that crowd is less than = understanding or having a bad day. =20 My opinion. =20 John Barrett =20 From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Luke Alcorn Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:31 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Correction on IFR/VFR flight plans =20 If you still want to activate a Vfr flight plan you would also need to = file a Vfr flight plan and then open and close it with flight service. = If you are on flight following there is really no reason to also do a = Vfr flight plan. If you go down the search and rescue timeline is much = better on flight following than FSS waiting until you are 30 minutes = overdue at your destination and then they start looking.=20 Luke Alcorn On Jul 27, 2011, at 7:13 AM, "Danny Miller" = wrote: Luke, If I use this procedure, do I still have to open my flight plan with the = FSS or is automatically opened in the same manner as an IFR flight plan? =20 Danny Miller N 38=C2=B0 43' 25.7" W 77=C2=B0 30' 38.6" =20 From: lalcorn@natca.net [mailto:lalcorn@natca.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:48 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: Correction on IFR/VFR flight plans =20 I miss spoke on my previous post about how to file the VFR flight plan = to get it in the system 100% of the time. If you use DUATS/DUAT, you = will need to select IFR domestic or ICAO flight plan. Then enter the = altitude as VFR/075 or what ever your cruise altitude will be. VFR/115 = VFR/165 etc. By selecting the IFR flight plan, that will send it to = the center computer which will put it in the IFR system. If you select = VFR flight plan, it sends it to FSS's computer, which will not enter it = in the centers computer. When ever you file the flight plan, the = message DUATS sends back will tell you where it went when it filled it. = The center computers names all start with a Z, i.e. ZJX is jacksonville = center, ZTL is atlanta center, ZFW is fort worth center, etc. If you = see the message, filled with MCN or GNV, that means the flight plan was = filled as a VFR only and went into the FSS computer, which does not send = the flight plan into the ATC system. I tried this with fltplan.com and = it will not let you select a VFR altitude for an IFR flight plan, so I = do not know if it can be done through that site, but I don't use = fltplan.com so I can not be sure. I have tested this at work and it works great every time. It also puts = a flight plan sitting in our departure list, so when you call ATC up for = flight following, we already have all of your information. =20 Luke Alcorn NATCA ZJX Safety Rep _____ =20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3790 - Release Date: 07/26/11 ------=_NextPart_000_0271_01CC4C28.019D7180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Very true and I use flight following maybe more than I should = =E2=80=93 I say that because in the most trying situations, flight = following can fail you and those situations may be the ones where = you=E2=80=99re most likely to get in trouble.

 

Case in point.=C2=A0 Yesterday I was coming home from KRDM (working = on my IVP project) to 0S9 on the Washington Olympic Peninsula in my = Beech Sierra,=C2=A0 coming north I was beneath a scattered to broken to = overcast layer that was lowering the further north I got.=C2=A0 By the = time I was clearing the last of the foothills east of Olympia and south = of Tacoma, I was at 3,500 feet with maybe less than 1,000 feet clearance = over the last of the mts.=C2=A0 Seattle approach abruptly calls me and = says =E2=80=9Cradar contact lost, squawk 1200=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 etc.=C2=A0 =

 

This one wasn=E2=80=99t truly that bad a deal but it reminds me I = have been in tighter boxes than that where contact with ATC was = extremely helpful and a smooth=C2=A0 transition to IFR was the only = sensible solution if I wanted to continue rather than turn around and = retreat.

 

Point is that they can cut you off at the worst times whether for the = above reason or just cuz they=E2=80=99re busy.=C2=A0 On the other hand = if you file IFR as someone suggested, then you can just convert to that = when you get a call like=C2=A0 this one. =C2=A0But you don=E2=80=99t = always need to do that either and I could have easily simply asked the = controller for IFR handling, told him=C2=A0 I could provide my own = terrain clearance in a climb and proceeded that way.=C2=A0 =

 

99 percent of the time the controllers are much more helpful than = this guy and they=E2=80=99ll watch for you to pop up again, or discuss = options with you.=C2=A0

 

ATC controllers are a great bunch to work with but occasionally = things can get vexing and hairy when someone in that crowd is less than = understanding or having a bad day.

 

My opinion.

 

John Barrett

 

From:= = Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Luke Alcorn
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:31 = AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: = Correction on IFR/VFR flight plans

 

If you = still want to activate a Vfr flight plan you would also need to file a = Vfr flight plan and then open and close it with flight service. If you = are on flight following there is really no reason to also do a Vfr = flight plan. If you go down the search and rescue timeline is much = better on flight following than FSS waiting until you are 30 minutes = overdue at your destination and then they start = looking. 


Luke = Alcorn


On Jul 27, 2011, at 7:13 AM, = "Danny Miller" <danny.miller@verizon.net>= wrote:

Luke,

If I use this procedure, do I still have to open = my flight plan with the FSS or is automatically opened in the same = manner as an IFR flight plan?

 

Danny = Miller

N 38=C2=B0 43' = 25.7"

W 77=C2=B0 30' = 38.6"

 

From:= = lalcorn@natca.net = [mailto:lalcorn@natca.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:48 = AM
To: lml@lancaironline.net
Sub= ject: Correction on IFR/VFR flight = plans

 <= /o:p>

I miss spoke = on my previous post about how to file the VFR flight plan to get it in = the system 100% of the time.  If you use DUATS/DUAT, you will need = to select IFR domestic or ICAO flight plan.  Then enter the = altitude as VFR/075  or what ever your cruise altitude will = be.  VFR/115 VFR/165  etc.  By selecting the IFR flight = plan, that will send it to the center computer which will put it in the = IFR system.  If you select VFR flight plan, it sends it to FSS's = computer, which will not enter it in the centers computer.  When = ever you file the flight plan, the message DUATS sends back will tell = you where it went when it filled it.  The center computers names = all start with a Z, i.e. ZJX is jacksonville center, ZTL is atlanta = center, ZFW is fort worth center, etc.  If you see the message, = filled with MCN or GNV, that means the flight plan was filled as a VFR = only and went into the FSS computer, which does not send the flight plan = into the ATC system.  I tried this with fltplan.com and it will not let you = select a VFR altitude for an IFR flight plan, so I do not know if it can = be done through that site, but I don't use fltplan.com so I can not be = sure.

I have = tested this at work and it works great every time.  It also puts a = flight plan sitting in our departure list, so when you call ATC up for = flight following, we already have all of your = information.

 =

Luke = Alcorn
NATCA ZJX Safety = Rep

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1390 / = Virus Database: 1518/3790 - Release Date: = 07/26/11

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