X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:31:51 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3816090 for lml@lancaironline.net; Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:25:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.56; envelope-from=topservices@bellsouth.net Received: from yourd0f670b45a (adsl-074-165-197-187.sip.mco.bellsouth.net[74.165.197.187]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20090817202512H0600h48vee>; Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:25:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [74.165.197.187] X-Original-Message-ID: <9DC4B6167A6F49EC94159DD374D14301@yourd0f670b45a> From: "Top Flight Services" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" , References: Subject: Re: auto engine X-Original-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:25:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0179_01CA1F57.4ACC4FC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0179_01CA1F57.4ACC4FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike , We helped Greg Oram install one of their engines in a 360 many = years ago .Please will find below his reply to me regarding the current = status of his " project " . Best Regards - Rob Rob Lueck Top Flight Services 475 Manor Dr. Merritt Island , FL 32952 www.topflightservice.com topservices@bellsouth.net 321-720-9554 Cell from Greg :=20 funny you should ask.=20 crossflow is out of business. jorge is still doing work on the engines = they have out there, but mostly they are making machine parts (they got = a big cnc machine back when he had some sort of investors).=20 my plane had been sitting up there since 03. they had a really good guy = working there for a while (lou) and he actually did a lot of work on my = plane, but never got it sorted out. he put about 4 hours of flight time = on it, but various cooling issues are still unresolved. they have a new = turbo, injectors, intake, and reduction drive on it and it was running = fine last time he flew it, but problems with cooling (engine oil and = reduction drive oil still heat up if you go fast) are still there, and = the turbo doesn't really do any good without an intercooler. the air = going straight from the turbo into the intake is so hot it doesn't add = any power. i wish i had known more about turbos way back when... 3 weeks ago, jorge came down to south carolina with his trailer to pick = up a plane (a white lightning) to bring back to canada, so i told him to = bring mine and drop it off on the way. so now its in my friends hanger = in virginia. i am going to install all the necessary coolers to make it = function properly (oil cooler, reduction cooler, and turbo intercooler) = and get it so the motor runs properly and then sell it for whatever i = can get. i assume whoever buys it will install an airplane motor, but = i'm going to get it running as-is anyway (coolers aren't expensive) in = case someone wants to use it as-is.=20 i believe the biggest problem with the crossflow motors is the inability = to run the motor hard enough to make the claimed power without = overheating problems. i think they stubbornly tried to make due with = inadequate radiators, and without the coolers because the added weight = will probably push the overall weight to quite a bit more than a = lycoming, and one of their sales points was that their motor weighed = less... also, the added drag from the radiator, 2 oil coolers and an intercooler = makes their setup inappropriate for a fast slippery plane. for a utility = type plane they are probably fine (if you add all the coolers). there is some sort of big fly-in at the airport in virginia on sept = 12th, and i hope to install the coolers and have it running by then = (without the wings installed, the hanger it's in now is too small). jorge is currently working on another 360 with the same motor, but they = are installing the radiator in the cowling, and all the coolers, = including a top mounted intercooler (like in the subaru car). i have no = idea how all that will fit, but he claims it will, and they are having a = company do a custom cowling which he says has been design by somebody up = there with proper fluid dynamics software. he says they will have the = mold and they can make cowlings for other planes if needed. i'm leaving = mine the way it is, with the scoop underneath, because i stopped = believing anything jorge says a long time ago. i also gave up any hope = of ever flying my plane a long time ago. (very sad)... is the guy you mentioned thinking of putting the crossflow motor in a = lancair? if he wants to, i would consider selling my whole firewall = forward (including MT prop) for a very reasonable price... you can send him this email, or you can give him mine, or my phone # = (still 202.375.4753) and i'd be glad to speak to him.=20 let me know if you need any crazy shaped metal airplane parts. i can = make pretty much any shape...i have some serious metal shaping tools up = here... hope things are going well for you,=20 cheers, greg o ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MichaelMicom@aol.com=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: auto engine Hello All, Anyone here have any tried crossflow engine on their 360. Mike 360 www.crossflow.com ------=_NextPart_000_0179_01CA1F57.4ACC4FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mike , We helped Greg Oram install one of their engines in a 360 = many=20 years ago .Please will find below his reply to me regarding = the=20 current status of his " project " . Best Regards - Rob
Rob Lueck
Top Flight Services
475 Manor Dr.
Merritt Island = , FL=20 32952
www.topflightservice.com
= topservices@bellsouth.net321-720-9554  =20 Cell
 
 
from Greg :
 
funny you should ask.=20

crossflow is out of business. jorge is still doing work on the = engines they=20 have out there, but mostly they are making machine parts (they got a big = cnc=20 machine back when he had some sort of investors). 

my plane had been sitting up there since 03. they had a really good = guy=20 working there for a while (lou) and he actually did a lot of work on my = plane,=20 but never got it sorted out. he put about 4 hours of flight time on it, = but=20 various cooling issues are still unresolved. they have a new turbo, = injectors,=20 intake, and reduction drive on it and it was running fine last time he = flew it,=20 but problems with cooling (engine oil and reduction drive oil still heat = up if=20 you go fast) are still there, and the turbo doesn't really do any good = without=20 an intercooler. the air going straight from the turbo into the intake is = so hot=20 it doesn't add any power. i wish i had known more about turbos way back=20 when...

3 weeks ago, jorge came down to south carolina with his trailer to = pick up=20 a plane (a white lightning) to bring back to canada, so i told him to = bring mine=20 and drop it off on the way. so now its in my friends hanger in virginia. = i am=20 going to install all the necessary coolers to make it function properly = (oil=20 cooler, reduction cooler, and turbo intercooler) and get it so the motor = runs=20 properly and then sell it for whatever i can get. i assume whoever buys = it will=20 install an airplane motor, but i'm going to get it running as-is anyway = (coolers=20 aren't expensive) in case someone wants to use it as-is. 

i believe the biggest problem with the crossflow motors is the = inability to=20 run the motor hard enough to make the claimed power without overheating=20 problems. i think they stubbornly tried to make due with inadequate = radiators,=20 and without the coolers because the added weight will probably push the = overall=20 weight to quite a bit more than a lycoming, and one of their sales = points was=20 that their motor weighed less...

also, the added drag from the radiator, 2 oil coolers and an = intercooler=20 makes their setup inappropriate for a fast slippery plane. for a utility = type=20 plane they are probably fine (if you add all the coolers).

there is some sort of big fly-in at the airport in virginia on sept = 12th,=20 and i hope to install the coolers and have it running by then (without = the wings=20 installed, the hanger it's in now is too small).

jorge is currently working on another 360 with the same motor, but = they are=20 installing the radiator in the cowling, and all the coolers, including a = top=20 mounted intercooler (like in the subaru car). i have no idea how all = that will=20 fit, but he claims it will, and they are having a company do a custom = cowling=20 which he says has been design by somebody up there with proper fluid = dynamics=20 software. he says they will have the mold and they can make cowlings for = other=20 planes if needed. i'm leaving mine the way it is, with the scoop = underneath,=20 because i stopped believing anything jorge says a long time ago. i also = gave up=20 any hope of ever flying my plane a long time ago. (very sad)...

is the guy you mentioned thinking of putting the crossflow motor in = a=20 lancair? if he wants to, i would consider selling my whole firewall = forward=20 (including MT prop) for a very reasonable price...

you can send him this email, or you can give him mine, or my phone = # (still=20 202.375.4753) and i'd be glad to speak to him. 

let me know if you need any crazy shaped metal airplane parts. i = can make=20 pretty much any shape...i have some serious metal shaping tools up = here...

hope things are going well for you, 
cheers,
greg o
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MichaelMicom@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 = 11:27=20 AM
Subject: auto engine

Hello All,
Anyone here have any tried crossflow engine on their 360.
Mike 360
 
www.crossflow.com
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