X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 07:43:31 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [66.64.141.200] (HELO lucky.dts.local) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2943846 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 29 May 2008 07:35:08 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.64.141.200; envelope-from=cjensen@dts9000.com Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8C17F.B407AE4E" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: EI, plugs, detonation X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 X-Original-Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 07:32:40 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <8984A39879F2F5418251CBEEC9C689B3AFCDDD@lucky.dts.local> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [LML] Re: EI, plugs, detonation Thread-Index: AcjBJnYsoUtkup0GT0OTcJUIHQJDAQAWWR7g From: "Chuck Jensen" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8C17F.B407AE4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know about your knowledge about plugs, but if it's similar to = your 'flying down the so cal coast at 200 kts at 50'', I think I'll get = my advice from somewhere else. =20 Chuck Jensen=20 -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of = Randy Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:56 PM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: EI, plugs, detonation Paul,=20 With all due respect. Your guess is wrong. I was there, I saw what I = saw. I've seen the damaged parts and what's left of the plugs. I've been = building and working with hi performance engines most of my life. Your = O-235 is not the standard of all aviation engines. Anyone that thinks = aviation spark plugs and auto plugs are exactly the same, except for the = socket used to install them, should not be using auto plugs. The = application design is far different, the heat range is far different. = Aviation engines and auto engines are designed for two completely = different uses. They run at different RPM's, different loads, different = ambient pressures, different ignition systems, different timing, = different fuels. If all spark plugs were exactly the same there would = only be one spark plug on the market.=20 If your airplane's worth is a mere $1.67 per plug, then I wish you well. = But the first time you witness a very well built, hi performance = Lycoming lose a cylinder over a $1.67 auto plug, I bet you'll stop using = them.=20 When I'm flying over 200kts down the so cal coast at 50 feet, I like the = peace of mind that the parts in my engine are designed for and time = tested for aviation use.=20 Anyone that wants to run whatever they want is fine, that's why this is = called experimental.=20 =20 Randy Stuart LNC-2 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul Lipps=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:54 PM Subject: [LML] EI, plugs, detonation Randy: I think what you mean is pre-ignition, not detonation, to take = out cylinders. Severe detonation may cause peening of the top of the = piston, broken ring lands, or cause hot spots which could result in = pre-ignition, but it is usually the incredible temperatures and = pressures associated with pre-ignition that will "hole" pistons. (See = Contact! magazine issue 57 for a comprehensive treatment of detonation = and pre-ignition). From your description I would hazard a guess that = what you saw resulted from incorrect timing and mixture. My O-235 is = 9.7:1, and I have dual LSE Plasma Is; My $1.67 Denso plugs run so clean, = with no electrode wear! And my coils are on top of my engine! ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8C17F.B407AE4E Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=20 don't know about your knowledge about plugs, but if it's similar to your = 'flying=20 down the so cal coast at 200 kts at 50'', I think I'll get my advice = from=20 somewhere else.
 
Chuck = Jensen=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair Mailing = List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of = Randy
Sent:=20 Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:56 PM
To:=20 lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: EI, plugs,=20 detonation

Paul,=20
With all due = respect. Your=20 guess is wrong. I was there, I saw what I saw. I've seen the damaged = parts and=20 what's left of the plugs. I've been building and working with hi=20 performance engines most of my life. Your O-235 is not the = standard of=20 all aviation engines. Anyone that thinks aviation spark plugs and auto = plugs=20 are exactly the same, except for the socket used to install them, = should not=20 be using auto plugs. The application design is far different, the heat = range=20 is far different. Aviation engines and auto engines are designed for = two=20 completely different uses. They run at different RPM's, different = loads,=20 different ambient pressures, different ignition systems, different = timing,=20 different fuels. If all spark plugs were exactly the same there would = only be=20 one spark plug on the market.
If your = airplane's worth is=20 a mere $1.67 per plug, then I wish you well. But the first time you = witness a=20 very well built, hi performance Lycoming lose a cylinder over a=20 $1.67 auto plug, I bet you'll stop using them.=20
When I'm flying = over 200kts=20 down the so cal coast at 50 feet, I like the peace of mind that the = parts in=20 my engine are designed for and time tested for aviation use. =
Anyone that = wants to run=20 whatever they want is fine, that's why this is called experimental.=20
 
Randy=20 Stuart
LNC-2
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Paul=20 Lipps
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 = 3:54=20 PM
Subject: [LML] EI, plugs,=20 detonation

Randy: I think what you mean is = pre-ignition, not=20 detonation, to take out cylinders. Severe detonation may cause = peening of=20 the top of the piston, broken ring lands, or cause hot spots which = could=20 result in pre-ignition, but it is usually the incredible = temperatures and=20 pressures associated with pre-ignition that will "hole" pistons. = (See=20 Contact! magazine issue 57 for a comprehensive treatment of = detonation and=20 pre-ignition). From your description I would hazard a guess that = what you=20 saw resulted from incorrect timing and mixture. My O-235 is 9.7:1, = and I=20 have dual LSE Plasma Is; My $1.67 Denso plugs run so clean, = with no=20 electrode wear! And my coils are on top of my=20 engine!
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