X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 00:32:22 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.204] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2937867 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 25 May 2008 09:51:49 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.138.204; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.c1d.3cbf03d3 (65098) for ; Sun, 25 May 2008 09:51:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Original-Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 09:51:05 EDT Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Electronic ignition spark plugs X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1211723465" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 34 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1211723465 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Randy, What you said is, of course, contrary to my experience and the recommendations made by Light Speed Engineering. Which plugs had "the tips burns down fast or the ceramic crack under the pressures" and what were the pressures? Were the plugs ever dropped? Are you sure the coils shorted internally because the auto plug gaps were getting larger or were the coils placed in too hot of an environment? What plugs were used? It is hard to imagine internal coil arcing in the absence of any plug gap or even the absence of a plug altogether. Which actual auto plugs cracked under full power and/or had the electrodes burned away? What were the other engine conditions? I have run my 9:1 CR injected 320 at takeoff power (racing is like that) for hours on end with no difficulty - no difficulty with either the EI or the Denso IK27's - where the timing and A/F ratios have been appropriate for the power and the coils are located in an area behind the engine that usually reaches 70C. Anyway, you might find it interesting to read: _http://sparkplugs.com/pdfs/iri.pdf_ (http://sparkplugs.com/pdfs/iri.pdf) even if you only skip to the conclusions at the end. You might consider getting rid of your massive electrode plugs altogether: _http://www.ramaircraft.com/Maintenance-Tips/Spark%20Plugs-Fine-Wire-vs-Massive. htm_ (http://www.ramaircraft.com/Maintenance-Tips/Spark%20Plugs-Fine-Wire-vs-Massive.htm) as it appears that while the fine wire plugs cost three times as much, they also last more than 3 times as long. You may wish to poke around the web for info on the differences betwixt Champion and Unison (Autolite) iridium plugs. BTW, I noticed that you re-gapped your aviation iridium plugs (out of the box the gaps are too small for EIs, .016-.018.). This is a very difficult task with Champion plugs (they are happy to re-gap them for you). Finally, I didn't even try the LSE recommended W27EBR (27 heat rating for h igher compression engines) since they seemed too cheap. I did try the W27EMR-C plugs (triple massive electrode), but didn't like them because I could not control all three gaps (well, that was one reason). Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) Pilot not TSO'd, Certificated score only > 70%. Not even FAA tested for Repairman Certification. In a message dated 5/25/2008 7:24:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, randystuart@hotmail.com writes: In my 360 I use Iridium plugs with my Jeff Rose EI. They work great. Set to .035. I wouldn't use car plugs in an aviation engine. They don't work well. I've seen the tips burns down fast or the ceramic crack under the pressures. One multiple failure I've seen is on a friends very low time Legacy that has had 3 shorted coils on his LSI system. This was from the Denso auto plug gaps getting larger from wear then eventually arcing inside the coil. Another failure in a 360 I've seen from auto plugs is the ceramic cracks under full power and completely burns away the electrodes, damaging the cylinder. Aviation plugs are made for aviation use and can take the abuse. They last much longer and rarely fail. All the Lancair's in my group stopped using auto plugs. Uppers are Massives with a mag and lowers are Iridium with an EI. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) -------------------------------1211723465 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Randy,
 
What you said is, of course, contrary to my experience and the=20 recommendations made by Light Speed Engineering.
 
Which plugs had "the tips burns down fast or the ceramic crack under th= e=20 pressures" and what were the pressures?  Were the plugs ever dropped?
 
Are you sure the coils shorted internally because the auto plug gaps we= re=20 getting larger or were the coils placed in too hot of an=20 environment?    What plugs were used?  It is hard to ima= gine=20 internal coil arcing in the absence of any plug gap or even the absence of a= =20 plug altogether.
 
Which actual auto plugs cracked under full power and/or had the electro= des=20 burned away?  What were the other engine conditions?
 
I have run my 9:1 CR injected 320 at takeoff power (racing is like that= )=20 for hours on end with no difficulty - no difficulty with either the EI or th= e=20 Denso IK27's - where the timing and A/F ratios have been appropriate for the= =20 power and the coils are located in an area behind the engine that=20 usually reaches 70C.
 
Anyway, you might find it interesting to read:  http://sparkplugs.com/pdfs/iri.p= df even=20 if you only skip to the conclusions at the end.
 
You might consider getting rid of your massive electrode plugs altogeth= er:=20 http://www.ramaircraft.com/Maintenance-Tips/Spark%20Plugs-Fi= ne-Wire-vs-Massive.htm as=20 it appears that while the fine wire plugs cost three times as much, the= y=20 also last more than 3 times as long.
 
You may wish to poke around the web for info on the differences betwixt= =20 Champion and Unison (Autolite) iridium plugs.
 
BTW,  I noticed that you re-gapped your aviation iridium plugs (ou= t of=20 the box the gaps are too small for EIs, .016-.018.).  This is a very=20 difficult task with Champion plugs (they are happy to re-gap them for=20 you).
 
Finally, I didn't even try the LSE recommended W27EBR (27 heat rating f= or=20 higher compression engines) since they seemed too cheap.  I did try the= =20 W27EMR-C plugs (triple massive electrode), but didn't like them because I co= uld=20 not control all three gaps (well, that was one reason).
 
Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL (KARR)

Pil= ot=20 not TSO'd, Certificated score only > 70%. 
Not even=20 FAA tested for Repairman Certification.
 
In a message dated 5/25/2008 7:24:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 randystuart@hotmail.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3D"Arial Narrow" color=3D#000= 000=20 size=3D4>
In my 360=20 I us= e=20 Iridium plugs with my Jeff Rose EI. They work great. Set to .035.=20
I wouldn't use car p= lugs in=20 an aviation engine. They don't work well.
I've seen the tips b= urns=20 down fast or the ceramic crack under the pressures.=20
One multiple failure= I've=20 seen is on a friends very low time Legacy that has had 3 shorted coils on=20= his=20 LSI system.
This was from the De= nso auto=20 plug gaps getting larger from wear then eventually arcing inside the coil.= =20
Another failure in a= 360=20 I've seen from auto plugs is the ceramic cracks under full power and=20 completely burns away the electrodes, damaging the=20 cylinder.
Aviation plugs are m= ade for=20 aviation use and can take the abuse. They last much longer and rarely fail= .=20 All the Lancair's in my group stopped using auto plugs.=20
Uppers are Massives=20= with a=20 mag and lowers are Iridium with an EI.
 


Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. <= A title=3D"http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfod000300= 00000002" href=3D"http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=3D4&?NCID=3Daolfo= d00030000000002" target=3D"_blank">Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AO= L Food.
-------------------------------1211723465--