Mailing List lml@lancaironline.net Message #45441
From: Bryan Wullner <sbej@verizon.net>
Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Re: 320/360 efficiency and economy - hole in the market?
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:37:47 -0500
To: <lml@lancaironline.net>
I have always wondered why they dont still produce the 320/360 kit. I dont care what a 320/360 kit would cost in today's dollars.  In my opinion, If it was possible to produce the 320/360 super fastbuild and sell it today for $27,000 it would still be successful.  But obviously Lancair chose to discontinue it so maybe they were seeing its popularity die off.  I think at the time the 320 was phased out people all wanted bigger and better everything.  Now with fuel costs and everyone going green and trying to be efficient as possible it might be time to start going back to smaller, sleek, fast airframes that use unbelievably small amounts of HP. 
Couldn't they have used the Legacy airfoil and adapted it to the 320/360? I understand they made the stub wing wider to accommodate a better landing gear system but couldn't they have just redesigned the 320 wing, beefed up the landing gear a little and left everything else as is. It could have been the Legacy 320.   Or just lighten up the Current Legacy airframe so it could fly 250MPH on 180HP. Ever felt how heavy the stock Legacy Panel is? It could definitely stand to lose some weight here and there.
 
 

  
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:23 PM
Subject: [LML] Re: 320/360 efficiency and economy - hole in the market?

Well, let's take a look at this.  I was all set to agree with you until I ran some numbers.
 
In its day, the 320/360 was arguably the best value on the market, as long as you didn't have to carry a big payload.  The standard kit was $20,000, and the fast-build kit was somewhere around $27,000.  The closest competitor (in cost and performance) was the Glasair II which I seem to remember costing about $27,000 for the RG model.  The 320/360 is a legit 200 mph plane.
 
One could argue that one of the major improvements (and cost drivers) of the Lancair kits over the years has been the amount of pre-fabrication done at the factory.  The Legacy has far less fabrication than even the fast-build version of the 320/360, and can't even be seriously compared to the amount of fabrication in the standard build kits (trust me on this one).  This actually applies across the entire line of kits, as any early L-IV builder can verify.
 
Using the split kit ES with the fast-build options as a basis ($51,800 in 1996) the E-glass 320/360 fast build kit would probably cost around $43,000 today.  When you cross reference other kit manufacturers, you get similar numbers (a standard build RV-6A kit was about $10K in 1996 and an RV-7A standard kit today sells for about $19K).  A quick browse of the Lancair website shows that they do indeed offer a 200+ mph kit that uses a 4-cylinder engine for around $40K - the Legacy FG.
 
So where would an updated version of the 320/360 kit fall in the Lancair lineup?  How much pre-fabrication would the factory have to knock out of the kit to drop the price to, say, the $35,000 neighborhood?  Is the end product a kit that the marketplace would tolerate?
 
As for the $200K Legacy, well, if you throw dual Cheltons on the panel, get a Reno-ready engine with an MT prop firewall-forward package, and get someone else to put it all together for you, yeah, you can hit $200K.  However, if you start with a $60K Legacy kit, do 2 weeks of builder support at the factory ($8K), use an overhauled engine (rebuilt Lyc 540's and Cont. 520's are all over Trade-A-Plane for $25-30K, so lets use $30K) still use that MT prop  (~$11K from Lancair), use decent quality tradional flight instruments for about $11K (and that includes a single axis autopiliot), buy basic IFR radio stack for about another $12K (which includes a Garmin 430), and 3K should cover your engine instrumentation, and (here's the key) ACTUALLY BUILD THE PLANE YOURSELF, you get a total of $135K, which leaves $65K for a paint job and interior before you hit $200K.  Going up to a rebuilt Cont. 550 would add $13K ($43K from Lancair).  On the other hand, you could also subtract a bunch if you got really creative with your engine choice.
 
Gary Fitzgerald
LNC2 extra-slow build ~70%
engine: TBD
St. Charles, MO
 

Has Lancair left a hole in the market place? 

 

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