X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:23:49 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2605431 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:35:26 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=71.74.56.123; envelope-from=schaefer@rts-services.com Received: from Master.RTS-Services.com ([70.113.90.126]) by hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20071219163445.RCJT20499.hrndva-omta05.mail.rr.com@Master.RTS-Services.com> for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:34:45 +0000 Received: from RTSLaptop (cpe-70-113-90-126.austin.res.rr.com [70.113.90.126]) (authenticated bits=0) by Master.RTS-Services.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id lBJGVguX010584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:31:43 -0600 From: "Richard T. Schaefer" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: Skoppe lancair 4 pt X-Original-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:34:39 -0600 X-Original-Message-ID: <004701c8425d$0d658d50$0202fea9@RTSLaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0048_01C8422A.C2CB1D50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AchCVnD4WGCq5SJzRJ6d/1b7FRdSvQAA3i2w X-Spam-Score: -1.278 () AWL,BAYES_00,DYN_RDNS_SHORT_HELO_HTML,HTML_MESSAGE,RDNS_DYNAMIC X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on 192.168.10.101 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C8422A.C2CB1D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff, I agree hardware fails. Lots of mechanical gyros also fail without a lot of feedback. A cross check between multiple sensors is always needed. When that hardware is electrical/software it will also fail in potential obscure ways, but usually quite obviously. Having independent systems makes it highly unlikely that they will fail at the same time. Unless it's an electrical system failure. For me with an ALL electric panel planned, dual redundant electrical systems is a requirement. Including two batteries. The thing that can take out the electrical system is a lightning strike. I do plan on some heavy MOV s (Metal Oxide Varistor) to keep any damage localized and not fry the entire electrical system. This is being used on lots of type certified aircfraft (VLJ) to limit this type of damage. Knowing I fly an aircraft that really does not like ice or electricity will keep me out of a lot of really serious IFR stuff. Every one has their own level of confidence. I assure you that if I find any instability in my equipment during my flights I will re-evaluate my situation and make adjustments to my system. It sounds like you have traveled on the bleeding edge with the Chelton/Crossbow combo. There is a lot more history on devices now. I am glad to not be on this bleeding edge. There are a few of us that are now on the ALL ELECTRIC bleeding edge. We will let you know how it goes. I fully expect that before I quit flying you will be hard pressed to find one of those "peanut" gauges except in the "antique" aircraft category, and I am not that young . r.t.s. _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of VTAILJEFF@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 9:50 AM To: lml@lancaironline.net Subject: [LML] Re: Skoppe lancair 4 pt in over 1000 hours flying the LIVP and Chelton combo I have had: 1. a total electrical failure (all screens go immediately dark-- not good when you are IMC over Jackson Hole). Three mechanical peanut gauges bought me enough time to recover. I had tow alternators at the time but it was a battery failure that took the entire system down. 2. an AHRS go bonzo without any EFIS cautions on an IMC flight creating some confusion as to what was happening. Comparing the EFIS to the mech gauges and TC helped sort things out. The AHRSA went back to Crossbow. 3. a heading failure with no EFIS announcements caused by too much steel near the AHRS (towbar). Don't place any steel within feet of your magnetic flux gate. 4. I have also had two occasions where a stray electron took down the entire Air Data and Engine display . One due to a TIT probe failure-- I was the beta tester there and the other was a short forward of the firewall coming in through the EAU taking the EAU out of the loop. Although IMC occupies only 10-15 % of my total flying-- it is during that time that the solo pilot can ill afford a primary system instrument failure. A robust backup system is in order. The days of having a vacuum failure fly the TC are over for most of us. Consider how you are going to diagnose a failure -- and not all are announced by the EFIS and how are you going to get home. Consider how you are going to fly the airplane with no electrical power or with every screen dark or so screwed up nothing electronic is usable. It will happen-- and not in clear blue and 22. Jeff (got the tee shirt) _____ See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ------=_NextPart_000_0048_01C8422A.C2CB1D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeff,

  I agree hardware fails. Lots = of mechanical gyros also fail without a lot of feedback. A cross check between = multiple sensors is always needed.

  When that hardware is electrical/software it will also fail in potential obscure ways, but = usually quite obviously. Having independent systems makes it highly unlikely = that they will fail at the same time. Unless it’s an electrical system = failure.  

  For me with an ALL electric = panel planned, dual redundant electrical systems is a requirement. Including = two batteries. The thing that can take out the electrical system is a = lightning strike. I do plan on some heavy MOV s (Metal Oxide Varistor) to keep any = damage localized and not fry the entire electrical system. This is being used = on lots of type certified aircfraft (VLJ) to limit this type of damage. =

 

Knowing I fly an aircraft that = really does not like ice or electricity will keep me out of a lot of really serious = IFR stuff.

 

Every one has their own level of confidence. I assure you that if I find any instability in my equipment = during my flights I will re-evaluate my situation and make adjustments to my = system. It sounds like you have traveled on the bleeding edge with the = Chelton/Crossbow combo. There is a lot more history on devices now. =

I am glad to not be on this = bleeding edge. There are a few of us that are now on the ALL ELECTRIC bleeding edge. We = will let you know how it goes. I fully expect that before I quit flying you = will be hard pressed to find one of those “peanut” gauges except in = the “antique” aircraft category, and I am not that young = …

 

r.t.s.

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of VTAILJEFF@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December = 19, 2007 9:50 AM
To: = lml@lancaironline.net
Subject: [LML] Re: Skoppe = lancair 4 pt

 

in over 1000 hours flying the LIVP = and Chelton combo I have had:

 

=

1.  a total electrical = failure (all screens go immediately dark-- not good when you are IMC over Jackson Hole). Three mechanical peanut gauges bought me enough time = to recover. I had tow alternators at the time but it was a battery failure = that took the entire system down.

 

=

2.  an AHRS go bonzo without = any EFIS cautions on an IMC flight creating some confusion as to what was happening. Comparing the EFIS to the mech gauges and TC helped sort = things out. The AHRSA went back to Crossbow.

 

=

3.  a heading failure with no = EFIS announcements caused by too much steel near the AHRS (towbar). Don't = place any steel within feet of your magnetic flux = gate.

 

=

4. I have also had two occasions = where a stray electron took down the entire Air Data and Engine display . One = due to a TIT probe failure-- I was the beta tester there and the other was a = short forward of the firewall coming in through the EAU taking the EAU out of = the loop.

 

=

Although IMC occupies only 10-15 % = of my total flying-- it is during that time that the solo pilot can ill = afford a primary system instrument failure. A robust backup system is in order. = The days of having a vacuum failure fly the TC are over for most of us. = Consider how you are going to diagnose a failure -- and not all are announced by = the EFIS and how are you going to get home.

 

=

Consider how you are going to fly = the airplane with no electrical power or with every screen dark or so = screwed up nothing electronic is usable. It will happen-- and not in clear blue and = 22.

 

=

Jeff

(got the tee = shirt)



See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter.

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