X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Return-Path: Sender: To: lml Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 18:33:35 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: <5zq@cox.net> Received: from eastrmmtao02.cox.net ([68.230.240.37] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.6) with ESMTP id 1822040 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:57:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.240.37; envelope-from=5zq@cox.net Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20070207195631.PMAB9317.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2007 14:56:31 -0500 Received: from OFFICE ([72.192.254.103]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id LjwU1W0122EdYPc0000000; Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:56:31 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <003f01c74af2$13446920$6401a8c0@OFFICE> From: "Bill&Sue" <5zq@cox.net> X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Bird Strike! X-Original-Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 14:56:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01C74AC8.2A4AAC80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C74AC8.2A4AAC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageHey Scott, I was talking to an old buddy of mine who learned to = fly in Stearmans in the Air Corps during the big one. He says that they = were taught to NOT take any evasive maneuver to avoid birds. The theory = being that the bird was very probably going to do SOMETHING. If he did = something and you did nothing, you'd miss. Otherwise, you'd have to = outguess the bird and I ain't that smart.=20 Chuck, I agree with your "useful time" statement. When we hit ours there = was maybe 1/2 to 1 second to react...no more. Certainly not enough time = to make any meaningful judgement call based on altitude, at least not in = my minimal brain. Bill Harrelson N5ZQ 320 1,300 hrs N6ZQ IV under construction ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chuck Jensen=20 To: lml=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:42 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Bird Strike! Okay, I'll bite. If we see a bird, or should I say, by the time we = see a bird, is there actually useful, effective manuveurs that can be = implements or is it strickly a wait-n-see regarding the outcome. I've = not had any strikes but the encounter happens so fast, it seems hard to = believe that one can be assured that the manuveur one makes will avoid = the hit, instead of ensuring you do. However, I am definitely in favor = of ducking!!! It is surprisingly common for two cars to collide in a near empty = parking lot...and those fools are only working in 2-D. Chuck Jensen=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Sky2high@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:11 PM To: lml Subject: [LML] Re: Bird Strike! In a message dated 2/6/2007 7:24:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, = 5zq@cox.net writes: Interesting stuff, Scott. A little late, but still interesting :-). Bill and Sue, Au contraire, mon amis. Perhaps the outcome would have been different = had you read and memorized all the titillating details when the article = was first published, then changed your "Impending Bird Strike" = emergency checklist. Such a checklist should always be in the hands of = the co-pilot, highlighted for AGL read outs and ready to assist the FP = on impact avoidance (or post strike cleanup). I know that age is = catching up and information retention is being crowded out by images of = the "good old days", but here one must be encouraged to engage in = recurrent training and simulated bird attacks in order to stay atop = one's game. Shutting one's eyes and pulling on the stick whilst voicing = the phrase "circular letter excrement" just isn't the proper response. = Lancair pilots fly a higher line than that. Grayhawk the irrelevant. We just keep pecking away at safety. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C74AC8.2A4AAC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hey Scott, I was talking to an old buddy of mine who learned to fly = in=20 Stearmans in the Air Corps during the big one. He says that = they were=20 taught to NOT take any evasive maneuver to avoid birds. The theory being = that=20 the bird was very probably going to do SOMETHING. If he did something = and you=20 did nothing, you'd miss. Otherwise, you'd have to outguess the bird = and I=20 ain't that smart.
 
Chuck, I agree with your "useful time" statement. When we hit ours = there=20 was maybe 1/2 to 1 second to react...no more. Certainly not enough time = to make=20 any meaningful judgement call based on altitude, at least not in my = minimal=20 brain.
 
Bill Harrelson
N5ZQ 320 1,300 hrs
N6ZQ  IV under construction
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Chuck=20 Jensen
To: lml
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, = 2007 10:42=20 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Bird = Strike!

Okay, I'll bite.  If we see = a bird,=20 or should I say, by the time we see a bird, is there actually useful,=20 effective manuveurs that can be implements or is it strickly a = wait-n-see=20 regarding the outcome.  I've not had any strikes but the = encounter=20 happens so fast, it seems hard to believe that one can be assured that = the=20 manuveur one makes will avoid the hit, instead of ensuring you = do. =20 However, I am definitely in favor of ducking!!!
 
It is surprisingly common for = two cars to=20 collide in a near empty parking lot...and those fools are only working = in=20 2-D.

Chuck Jensen 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: = Lancair Mailing=20 List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 Sky2high@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 10:11=20 PM
To: lml
Subject: [LML] Re: Bird=20 Strike!

In a message dated 2/6/2007 7:24:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 5zq@cox.net writes:
Interesting stuff, Scott. A little late, but still = interesting=20 :-).
Bill and Sue,
 
Au contraire, mon amis. Perhaps the outcome would have been = different had=20 you read and memorized all the titillating details when the = article was=20 first published, then changed your "Impending Bird Strike"  = emergency=20 checklist.  Such a checklist should always be in the hands = of the=20 co-pilot, highlighted for AGL read outs and ready to assist the FP on = impact=20 avoidance (or post strike cleanup).  I know that age is catching = up and=20 information retention is being crowded out by images of the "good old = days",=20 but here one must be encouraged to engage in recurrent training and = simulated=20 bird attacks in order to stay atop one's game.  = Shutting one's=20 eyes and pulling on the stick whilst voicing the phrase "circular=20 letter excrement" just isn't the proper response.  Lancair = pilots=20 fly a higher line than that.
 
Grayhawk the irrelevant.
 
We just keep pecking away at=20 safety.
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