X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 82 [XXX] (100%) BODY: Multipart Alternative email: % similar of HTML vs Text part 0 Return-Path: Sender: To: lml Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:40:32 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net ([206.46.252.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.3) with ESMTP id 1636550 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:49:33 -0500 Received: from [192.168.111.2] ([70.18.205.49]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0J9Q006GT7Q96CWH@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 19:49:25 -0600 (CST) X-Original-Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:49:11 -0500 From: Kevin Kossi Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Hx = Hot Stuff! In-reply-to: X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-Original-Message-id: <1FFD2629-30B4-4F57-8A5E-AFF393BB69A0@airforcemechanical.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-72-58673950 References: --Apple-Mail-72-58673950 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Here is my preliminary data: Empty Weight 1553 Kevin 155 Passenger 200 De-ice 40 20-amp Alt 5.75 Parachutes 30 2 60 Zero Fuel Weight Total 2013.75 Fuel 65 5.85 380.25 Total Gross Weight 2394 If I fly two hours, I burn enough flue to land at 2,200Lbs If I fly by myself: Empty Weight 1553 Kevin 155 Passenger 0 De-ice 40 20-amp Alt 5.75 Parachutes 30 1 30 Zero Fuel Weight Total 1783.75 Fuel 65 5.85 380.25 Total Gross Weight 2164 The De-ice may be too much. I haven't ordered it or my prop yet, so =20 nothing is written in stone, other than that I want the Parachutes =20 and the ability to jettison the Canopy. I have to see what the Empty weight will be with the MT Prop. I'll =20 give Tim a call and see what he has to say. If he tells me the De-ice =20= puts me over the top, I won't do it. Alan, You do remember this email don't you? From: "Marvin Kaye" Subject: Re: [LML] Legacy Max Weights Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:27:38 -0400 To: lml =EF=BF=BC =EF=BF=BC Posted for "Alan K. Adamson" : I believe you as the builder can specify any gross weight that you =20 want.... However, the factory offers guidelines that stay within the design =20 envelop of the aircraft. In talking with Tim Ong. The specified gross is 2200. He had no =20 problem with 2400, but didn't suggest anything greater than that. I'm =20 thinking of doing like what some of the certified guys do. They specify a Max =20 Takeoff weight and a Max landing weight. I'd do the 2400/2200 for those =20 two. Yes it means you have to burn off some fuel if you took off at gross =20 and then didn't plan a long enough trip. This is the same thing in my 182. =20 Max TO is 3100 and Max landing is 2950. Most likely what I'll do... Alan I am always open for constructive criticism and helpful input, but =20 there is no reason to speak to people the way you do. Kevin Kossi Legacy 73% New York On Dec 3, 2006, at 11:37 AM, Marvin Kaye wrote: > Posted for "Alan K. Adamson" : > > Kevin, > I just connected the dots... > Can I poke for a minute? In good fun? > Let me see if I can summarize. > A) - you always wear a parachute and will continue to do so with =20 > your LEGACY > B) - you are going to add the 100A alt, a 40A backup (dunno where =20 > you got a > 40 that fits on the accessory port, the B&C is a 20), a 70 for the =20= > de-ice > system > C) - I'm assuming from all the alternators, that you are also =20 > going to have > Lots of batteries, so when the alternator quits, you have backup? > D) - you are going to add a full deice system, this will include =20 > cuffs on > the wings, horiz stab, vert stab, etc > E) - you want a full feathering prop setup > Ok, did I say all of this is going into a Legacy? Do I have all =20 > of this > right? > Your concern with the W&B is right on the mark... Have you done =20 > any research > around all the above? Might be worth while and here's why. > *Most*, not all, Legacys weigh about 1550-1650+ empty, when they are > finished per factory (normal prop, single battery/alt, no-deice, etc) > Factory specified gross is 2200lbs. With 66gals of fuel on board, =20= > that is > 400lbs of fuel. See the problem? =46rom the looks of things, you =20= > are going > to build an airplane that is going to be extremely marginal around =20= > max > weight *and* W&B. In an ES, no problem, but in a Legacy, I'm not =20 > sure it's > wise. > I guess I only bring this up, because you were *so* vocal around =20 > how *safe* > you want to be, but now you encroaching on all the safety aspects =20 > that were > designed into the airframe by violating its design, structurally with > modifications. > Shoot, and to think I was paranoid around prop selection and W&B, =20= > only > because I have dual batteries. Based upon your scenario, mines a no > brainer.... > Best of luck, you are certainly on the *bleeding* edge, I just =20 > hope your > dreams turns out as you expect. But please be careful, I'd hate =20 > for you to > *have* to use that parachute due to improper flight =20 > characteristics, or > other. > Alan > > """ > I am getting/waiting for the system for my plane. I made a place =20 > for the > switch and lights in my panel. What did you do for the indicator =20 > lights? > I have a 100 amp 24V and a 40 amp 24V back-up and I will have the =20 > 70V for > the De-ice. > """ > > -- > For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/ --Apple-Mail-72-58673950 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-73-58673952 --Apple-Mail-73-58673952 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

Here is my=A0preliminary data:



Empty = Weight1553
Kevin155
Passenger200
De-ice40
20-amp=A0Alt5.75
Parachutes30260
Zero Fuel Weight = Total2013.75
Fuel655.85380.25
Total Gross = Weight2394


If I fly two hours, I burn=A0enough flue to land at = 2,200Lbs


If I fly by myself:



Empty = Weight1553
Kevin155
Passenger0
De-ice40
20-amp=A0Alt5.75
Parachutes30130
Zero Fuel Weight = Total1783.75
Fuel655.85380.25
Total Gross = Weight2164


The De-ice may be = too much. I=A0haven't ordered it or my prop yet, so nothing is written = in stone, other than that I want the Parachutes and the ability to = jettison the Canopy.

I have to see what the Empty weight will be with the MT Prop. = I'll give Tim a call and see what he has to say. If he tells me the = De-ice puts me over the top, I won't do it.



Alan,


You do remember this = email don't you?

=
From:
"Marvin Kaye" <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject:
Re: [LML] Legacy Max Weights
Date:
Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:27:38 = -0400
To:
lml




Posted for "Alan = K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>:

=A0I believe you as the builder can specify any gross weight = that you want....
=A0However, the = factory offers guidelines that stay within the design = envelop
=A0of the = aircraft.

=A0

=A0In talking = with Tim Ong. The specified gross is 2200. He had no = problem
=A0with 2400, = but didn't suggest anything greater than that. I'm thinking = of
=A0doing like what some of the certified = guys do. They specify a Max Takeoff
=A0weight and a Max landing weight. I'd do the 2400/2200 for = those two. Yes
=A0it means you = have to burn off some fuel if you took off at gross and = then
=A0didn't plan a = long enough trip. This is the same thing in my 182. Max = TO
=A0is 3100 and Max landing is = 2950.

=A0

=A0Most likely = what I'll do...

=A0

=A0Alan

I am always open for constructive=A0criticism and=A0helpful = input, but there is no reason to speak to people the way you = do.



Kevin = Kossi
Legacy 73%
New = York

On Dec 3, 2006, at 11:37 AM, = Marvin Kaye wrote:

Posted for "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>:

=A0Kevin,
=A0 I = just connected the dots...
=A0 Can I poke for a minute?=A0 In good fun?
=A0 Let = me see if I can summarize.
=A0 A) - you always wear a = parachute and will continue to do so with your LEGACY
=A0B) - = you are going to add the 100A alt, a 40A backup (dunno where you got = a
=A04= 0 that fits on the accessory port, the B&C is a 20), a 70 for the = de-ice
=A0system
=A0C) - = I'm assuming from all the alternators, that you are also going to = have
=A0Lots of batteries, so when the = alternator quits, you have backup?
=A0D) - you are going to add a = full deice system, this will include cuffs on
=A0the = wings, horiz stab, vert stab, etc
=A0E) - you want a full = feathering prop setup
=A0 Ok, did I say all of this is = going into a Legacy?=A0 Do = I have all of this
=A0right?
=A0 = Your concern with the W&B is right on the mark... Have you = done any research
=A0around all the above?=A0 Might be worth while and = here's why.
=A0 *Most*, not all, Legacys = weigh about 1550-1650+ empty, when they are
=A0finished per factory (normal = prop, single battery/alt, no-deice, etc)
=A0Factory specified gross is = 2200lbs.=A0 With 66gals of = fuel on board, that is
=A0400lbs of fuel.=A0 See the problem?=A0 =46rom the looks of things, = you are going
=A0to build an airplane that is = going to be extremely marginal around max
=A0weight *and* W&B.=A0 In an ES, no problem, but in = a Legacy, I'm not sure it's
=A0wise.
=A0 I = guess I only bring this up, because you were *so* vocal around how = *safe*
=A0you want to be, but now you = encroaching on all the safety aspects that were
=A0design= ed into the airframe by violating its design, structurally = with
=A0modifications.
=A0 = Shoot, and to think I was paranoid around prop selection and = W&B, only
=A0because I have dual = batteries.=A0 Based upon = your scenario, mines a no
=A0brainer....
=A0 = Best of luck, you are certainly on the *bleeding* edge, I just = hope your
=A0dreams turns out as you = expect.=A0 But please be = careful, I'd hate for you to
=A0*have* to use that parachute = due to improper flight characteristics, or
=A0other.
=A0 = Alan

=A0

"""
=A0I am = getting/waiting for the system for my plane. I made a place for = the
=A0switch and lights in my panel. = What did you do for the indicator lights?
=A0I have a 100 amp 24V and a 40 = amp 24V back-up and I will have the 70V for
=A0the De-ice.
"""

--

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