X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:04:07 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com ([24.94.166.129] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.1) with ESMTP id 1504635 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:02:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.94.166.129; envelope-from=MSmith982@mn.rr.com Received: from SMITH (CPE-65-29-41-237.mn.res.rr.com [65.29.41.237]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k9Q12NjR008329 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:02:27 -0500 (CDT) X-Original-Message-Id: <200610260102.k9Q12NjR008329@ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com> From: "Mike Smith" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" Subject: RE: [LML] Transatlantic Crossing X-Original-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:02:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C6F870.7D6F0050" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-reply-to: Thread-Index: Acb4kn/RFWu2qqxVSsqYWd92NK1+OQABwfVw X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C6F870.7D6F0050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello there, Bruce, Thanks greatly for your words of wisdom. I need to sift through all this tuff. I am planning to go next September, and the helpful response to my posting is very telling. Many folks clearly have shared the enthusiasm. I just have a lot of homework to do. You said the icing levels never get above 5000. Does that mean the freezing level? I think it would be absolutely petrifying to be iced up 400 miles from nowhere. That is my biggest in flight fear. Thanks for responding. I will follow-up later with you. It could be such a great adventure. Michael _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Ryan Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:05 PM To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Transatlantic Crossing Mike I read with great interest your inquiry regarding transatlantic flight I made the trip several years ago in the 310 I had at the time. A few thoughts for your consideration * Insurance is the biggest preflight issues. Some countries require it. I was never asked to show it (or anything else for that matter), but you should look into that issue now. * The trip is all about weather. The icing level never gets above 5,000 ft. even in July. The weather can be nasty and turn quickly. The nearest alternate can and will be 200-300 or more miles away. * At one time there were "issues" around experimental aircraft in some countries and IFR flights. You should look into this issue now also. * Allocate a lot more time than you think you will need. You could be stuck somewhere for days. Plan to make the most of it. Don't get into a situation where you feel any pressure to launch on a leg. We had an understanding that if either one of us didn't fell right about a leg for any reason, we would wait until it felt good. It never happened, but we were prepared Recommendations * Look for a transatlantic "Ground School" I used Ed Carlson. I don't know whether he is still doing this. Most of the rules, regulations and "how to information" you could get off the Web. However people like Ed provide absolutely invaluable information about FBO's (handlers), hotel/B&B, telephone numbers, weather trends etc. And last but not least answer all the questions that come up about what is important, and what is not. * Talk to every ferry pilot you find along way, they know the drill and what looks good and what doesn't. A night "on the town" in Goose Bay with a couple of ferry pilots is something you won't forget! * Get the local (destination) telephone number for weather for the critical legs (Greenland, Iceland and Goose bay in that order) and call them just before you leave. It might take a bit of talking, but you can usually get a pretty knowledgeable opinion. These folks know the local weather patterns and how they change * Talk to the airline guys on the assigned frequency. There's always someone there, and they can get weather for you. In addition ask them to look out the window and tell you what they see. They can see a long way! * Construct a simple Excel spreadsheet with the required information for position reports because you will have to do lot of them in the right sequence. Also fill out and make many copies of the ICAO flight plan. It is a real pain. But most of the info doesn't change. You get a very positive response when you hand someone a form that is legible. * Avoid temporary fuel tanks if at all possible. If you go Greenland/Iceland you might not need one. Get the regs and run the numbers now. OTOH, if you are in the construction phase consider permanently plumbing in lines for a removable aux tank. I am. * Get a good moving map. The best bet is a PC based MM since you can use it for flight planning and Enroute Most of the air space in Europe, with the exception of central France, is controlled and many of the fixes are ADF's. In addition, use a MM to create your own GPS overlay for places like Narsarsuaq. Narsarsuaq is the most difficult and expensive place. Beware of arriving or departing when the airport is not open. The cost is staggering. Also, Jet A is ~1/3 the cost of 100LL. The approach must be the wildest one in the world. It is (or at least was) an ADF approach with the IAF at 6000 feet over the airport. Have a look at http://iserit.greennet.gl/bgbw/ if you haven't already. Returning, you need 13,000 or more over the southern tip of the polar ice cap, and most people hold that altitude until you can see Narsarsuaq, which means you start your approach at 13,000 overhead. The ultimate slam dunk approach * Be prepared for some pretty hefty bills. The 310 was just over 5000 lbs at gross, which ups the anti. I got bills for months that had ridiculous cost algorithms. Bureaucracy gone amok. People in the user fee system have to justify their existence so they make up ridiculous rules. I could have papered the floor of my hanger and probably the 310 too. I offered to do this for the AOPA so they could show folks what user fees are all about (one picture is worth a thousand words) but they ignored me Mike, I hope all of this hasn't discouraged you, it is an incredible experience for many reasons, not the least of which will be the other pilots you meet doing the same thing. Europe is actually very small, and if it weren't for the airspace and bureaucracy would be easy to get around. I had been going to Europe for 25 years on business but never got to the Channel Islands, the Isle of Mann, Le Mans (the airport is next to the track), Donegal or circled Omaha beach at under 1000 ft. I did in the 310 and will again in my IVP. We had great weather, stopped in 9 countries, flew 18 legs in 12 days, got as far south as Geneva all in 20 days. We had tail winds both ways. I have never complained about head winds since then, and never will again! Hope this helps Regards Bruce ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C6F870.7D6F0050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello there, = Bruce,

 

Thanks greatly for your words of = wisdom.  I need to sift through all this tuff.  I am planning to go next = September, and the helpful response to my posting is very telling.  Many folks = clearly have shared the enthusiasm.  I just have a lot of homework to = do.

 

You said the icing levels never get = above 5000.  Does that mean the freezing level?  I think it would be = absolutely petrifying to be iced up 400 miles from nowhere.  That is my = biggest in flight fear.

 

Thanks for responding.  I will = follow-up later with you.  It could be such a great = adventure.

 

Michael

=

 

From: = Lancair Mailing List = [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Ryan
Sent: Wednesday, October = 25, 2006 7:05 PM
To: Lancair Mailing List
Subject: [LML] = Transatlantic Crossing

 

 

 

Mike

I read with great interest your inquiry regarding transatlantic = flight

I made the trip several years ago in the 310 I had at the = time.

 

 

A few thoughts for your consideration

  • Insurance = is the biggest preflight issues. Some countries require it. I was never asked to show it (or anything else for that matter), but = you should look into that issue now.
  • The trip = is all about weather.  The icing level never gets above 5,000 ft. = even in July. The weather can be nasty and turn quickly. The nearest alternate = can and will be 200-300 or more miles away.
  • At one = time there were  “issues” around experimental aircraft in = some countries and IFR flights. You should look into this issue now also. =
  • Allocate = a lot more time than you think you will need. You could be stuck somewhere for = days. Plan to make the most of it. Don’t get into a situation where = you feel any pressure to launch on a leg. We had an understanding that = if either one of us didn’t fell right about a leg for any = reason, we would wait until it felt good. It never happened, but we were = prepared

 

 

Recommendations =

  • Look for = a transatlantic "Ground School" I used Ed Carlson. I don't know whether he is still doing this.  Most = of the rules, regulations and “how to information” you could = get off the Web.  However people like Ed provide absolutely invaluable = information about FBO’s (handlers), hotel/B&B, telephone numbers, = weather trends etc. And last but not least answer all the questions that = come up about what is important, and what is not.  =
  • Talk to = every ferry pilot you find along way, they know the drill and what looks good = and what doesn't. A night “on the town” in Goose Bay with a couple of ferry pilots is something you won't = forget!
  • Get the = local (destination) telephone number for weather for the critical = legs  (Greenland, Iceland and Goose bay in that order) and call them just = before you leave.  It might take a bit of talking, but you can = usually get a pretty knowledgeable opinion. These folks know the local weather = patterns and how they change
  • Talk to = the airline guys on the assigned frequency. There’s always someone there, = and they can get weather for you. In addition ask them to look out the = window and tell you what they see.  They can see a long = way!
  • Construct = a simple Excel spreadsheet with the required information for position = reports because you will have to do lot of them in the right sequence. Also = fill out and make many copies of the  ICAO flight plan. It is a = real pain. But most of the info doesn’t change. You get a very positive = response when you hand someone a form that is = legible.
  • Avoid = temporary fuel tanks if at all possible. If you go Greenland/Iceland you might not = need one. Get the regs and run the numbers now. OTOH, if you are in the construction phase consider permanently plumbing in lines for a = removable aux tank. I am.
  • Get a = good moving map. The best bet is a PC based MM since you can use it for flight planning and Enroute Most of the air space in Europe, with the = exception of central France, is controlled and many of the fixes are ADF’s. In addition, = use a MM to create your own GPS overlay for places like Narsarsuaq. = Narsarsuaq is the most difficult and expensive place. Beware of arriving or = departing when the airport is not open. The cost is staggering. Also, Jet A = is ~1/3 the cost of 100LL. The approach must be the wildest one in the = world. It is (or at least was) an ADF approach with the IAF at 6000 feet over = the airport. Have a look at http://iserit.greennet.gl/bgbw/ if you haven’t = already. Returning, you need 13,000 or more over the southern tip of the = polar ice cap, and most people hold that altitude until you can see = Narsarsuaq, which means you start your approach at 13,000 overhead. The = ultimate slam dunk approach
  • Be = prepared for some pretty hefty bills. The 310 was just over 5000 lbs at gross, which = ups the anti. I got bills for months that had ridiculous cost algorithms. Bureaucracy gone amok. People in the user fee system have to = justify their existence so they make up ridiculous rules. I could have papered = the floor of my hanger and probably the 310 too. I offered to do this for the = AOPA so they could show folks what user fees are all about (one picture = is worth a thousand words) but they ignored = me

 

Mike, I hope = all of this hasn’t discouraged you, it is an incredible experience for many = reasons, not the least of which will be the other pilots you meet doing the same = thing.

Europe is actually very small, and if it = weren’t for the airspace and bureaucracy would be easy to get around. I had been = going to Europe for 25 years on business but never got to the Channel Islands, = the Isle of Mann, Le Mans (the airport is next = to the track), Donegal  or circled Omaha beach at under 1000 ft. I did in the 310 and will again in my = IVP.

 

We had great = weather, stopped in 9 countries, flew 18 legs in 12 days, got as far south as = Geneva all in = 20 days. We had tail winds both ways. I have never complained about head winds since = then, and never will again!

 

Hope this helps

Regards

Bruce

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