X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:04:53 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.234.158] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.1) with ESMTP id 1503255 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:17:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.234.158; envelope-from=bruceryan@msn.com X-Original-Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [68.160.178.76] X-Originating-Email: [bruceryan@msn.com] Received: from DELL2200 ([68.160.178.76]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:17:18 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <001001c6f837$e5c2dac0$6d02a8c0@DELL2200> From: "Bruce Ryan" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Subject: Transatlantic Crossing X-Original-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:17:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6F816.5D8BF4A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Original-Return-Path: bruceryan@msn.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Oct 2006 13:17:18.0417 (UTC) FILETIME=[E5842410:01C6F837] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6F816.5D8BF4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 Mike I read with great interest your inquiry regarding transatlantic flight=20 I made the trip several years ago in the 310 I had at the time. A few thoughts for your consideration a.. Insurance is the biggest preflight issues. Some countries require = it. I was never asked to show it (or anything else for that matter), but = you should look into that issue now. b.. The trip is all about weather. The icing level never gets above = 5,000 ft. even in July. The weather can be nasty and turn quickly. The = nearest alternate can and will be 200-300 or more miles away. c.. At one time there were "issues" around experimental aircraft in = some countries and IFR flights. You should look into this issue now = also.=20 d.. Allocate a lot more time than you think you will need. You could = be stuck somewhere for days. Plan to make the most of it. Don't get into = a situation where you feel any pressure to launch on a leg. We had an = understanding that if either one of us didn't fell right about a leg for = any reason, we would wait until it felt good. It never happened, but we = were prepared =20 =20 Recommendations=20 a.. Look for a transatlantic "Ground School" I used Ed Carlson. I = don't know whether he is still doing this. Most of the rules, = regulations and "how to information" you could get off the Web. However = people like Ed provide absolutely invaluable information about FBO's = (handlers), hotel/B&B, telephone numbers, weather trends etc. And last = but not least answer all the questions that come up about what is = important, and what is not. =20 b.. Talk to every ferry pilot you find along way, they know the drill = and what looks good and what doesn't. A night "on the town" in Goose Bay = with a couple of ferry pilots is something you won't forget! c.. Get the local (destination) telephone number for weather for the = critical legs (Greenland, Iceland and Goose bay in that order) and call = them just before you leave. It might take a bit of talking, but you can = usually get a pretty knowledgeable opinion. These folks know the local = weather patterns and how they change d.. Talk to the airline guys on the assigned frequency. There's always = someone there, and they can get weather for you. In addition ask them to = look out the window and tell you what they see. They can see a long = way! e.. Construct a simple Excel spreadsheet with the required information = for position reports because you will have to do lot of them in the = right sequence. Also fill out and make many copies of the ICAO flight = plan. It is a real pain. But most of the info doesn't change. You get a = very positive response when you hand someone a form that is legible. f.. Avoid temporary fuel tanks if at all possible. If you go = Greenland/Iceland you might not need one. Get the regs and run the = numbers now. OTOH, if you are in the construction phase consider = permanently plumbing in lines for a removable aux tank. I am. g.. Get a good moving map. The best bet is a PC based MM since you can = use it for flight planning and Enroute Most of the air space in Europe, = with the exception of central France, is controlled and many of the = fixes are ADF's. In addition, use a MM to create your own GPS overlay = for places like Narsarsuaq. Narsarsuaq is the most difficult and = expensive place. Beware of arriving or departing when the airport is not = open. The cost is staggering. Also, Jet A is ~1/3 the cost of 100LL. The = approach must be the wildest one in the world. It is (or at least was) = an ADF approach with the IAF at 6000 feet over the airport. Have a look = at http://iserit.greennet.gl/bgbw/ if you haven't already. Returning, = you need 13,000 or more over the southern tip of the polar ice cap, and = most people hold that altitude until you can see Narsarsuaq, which means = you start your approach at 13,000 overhead. The ultimate slam dunk = approach h.. Be prepared for some pretty hefty bills. The 310 was just over = 5000 lbs at gross, which ups the anti. I got bills for months that had = ridiculous cost algorithms. Bureaucracy gone amok. People in the user = fee system have to justify their existence so they make up ridiculous = rules. I could have papered the floor of my hanger and probably the 310 = too. I offered to do this for the AOPA so they could show folks what = user fees are all about (one picture is worth a thousand words) but they = ignored me =20 Mike, I hope all of this hasn't discouraged you, it is an incredible = experience for many reasons, not the least of which will be the other = pilots you meet doing the same thing.=20 Europe is actually very small, and if it weren't for the airspace and = bureaucracy would be easy to get around. I had been going to Europe for = 25 years on business but never got to the Channel Islands, the Isle of = Mann, Le Mans (the airport is next to the track), Donegal or circled = Omaha beach at under 1000 ft. I did in the 310 and will again in my IVP. =20 We had great weather, stopped in 9 countries, flew 18 legs in 12 days, = got as far south as Geneva all in 20 days. We had tail winds both ways. = I have never complained about head winds since then, and never will = again! Hope this helps Regards Bruce ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6F816.5D8BF4A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

Mike

I read with great interest your = inquiry=20 regarding transatlantic flight

I made the trip several years = ago in the 310=20 I had at the time.

 

A few=20 thoughts for your consideration
  • Insurance is the biggest = preflight issues.=20 Some countries require it. I was never asked to show it (or = anything=20 else for that matter), but you should look into that issue=20 now.
  • The trip is all about = weather.  The icing level never gets = above 5,000=20 ft. even in July. The weather can be nasty and turn quickly. The = nearest=20 alternate can and will be 200-300 or more miles=20 away.
  • At one time there were  =93issues=94 around = experimental aircraft=20 in some countries and IFR flights. You should look into this issue now = also.=20
  • Allocate a lot more time than = you think=20 you will need. You could be stuck somewhere for days. Plan to make the = most of=20 it. Don=92t get into a situation where you feel any pressure to launch = on a leg.=20 We had an understanding that if either one of us didn=92t fell right = about a leg=20 for any reason, we would wait until it felt good. It never happened, = but we=20 were prepared

 

 

Recommendations=20

  • Look for a transatlantic = "Ground School" I=20 used Ed Carlson. I don't know whether he is still doing this.  Most of the rules, = regulations and=20 =93how to information=94 you could get off the Web.  However people like Ed = provide=20 absolutely invaluable information about FBO=92s (handlers), = hotel/B&B,=20 telephone numbers, weather trends etc. And last but not least answer = all the=20 questions that come up about what is important, and what is not.  =
  • Talk to every ferry pilot you = find along=20 way, they know the drill and what looks good and what doesn't. A night = =93on the=20 town=94 in Goose Bay with a couple of ferry pilots is something you = won't=20 forget!
  • Get the local (destination) = telephone=20 number for weather for the critical legs =20 (Greenland, Iceland and Goose bay in that order) and call them = just=20 before you leave.  It = might take a=20 bit of talking, but you can usually get a pretty knowledgeable = opinion. These=20 folks know the local weather patterns and how they=20 change
  • Talk to the airline guys on = the assigned=20 frequency. There=92s always someone there, and they can get weather = for you. In=20 addition ask them to look out the window and tell you what they = see.  They can see a long=20 way!
  • Construct a simple Excel = spreadsheet with=20 the required information for position reports because you will have to = do lot=20 of them in the right sequence. Also fill out and make many copies of = the  ICAO flight plan. It is a = real pain.=20 But most of the info doesn=92t change. You get a very positive = response when you=20 hand someone a form that is = legible.
  • Avoid temporary fuel tanks if = at all=20 possible. If you go Greenland/Iceland you might not need one. Get the = regs and=20 run the numbers now. OTOH, if you are in the construction phase = consider=20 permanently plumbing in lines for a removable aux tank. I=20 am.
  • Get a good moving map. The best bet = is a PC=20 based MM since you can use it for flight planning and Enroute Most of = the air=20 space in Europe, with the exception of central France, is controlled = and many=20 of the fixes are ADF=92s. In addition, use a MM to create your own GPS = overlay=20 for places like Narsarsuaq. Narsarsuaq is the most difficult and = expensive=20 place. Beware of arriving or departing when the airport is not open. = The cost=20 is staggering. Also, Jet A is ~1/3 the cost of 100LL. The approach = must be the=20 wildest one in the world. It is (or at least was) an ADF approach with = the IAF=20 at 6000 feet over the airport. Have a look at http://iserit.greennet.gl/bgbw/ if you haven=92t already. = Returning, you=20 need 13,000 or more over the southern tip of the polar ice cap, and = most=20 people hold that altitude until you can see Narsarsuaq, which means = you start=20 your approach at 13,000 overhead. The ultimate slam dunk=20 approach
  • Be prepared for some pretty = hefty bills.=20 The 310 was just over 5000 lbs at gross, which ups the anti. I got = bills for=20 months that had ridiculous cost algorithms. Bureaucracy gone amok. = People in=20 the user fee system have to justify their existence so they make up = ridiculous=20 rules. I could have papered the floor of my hanger and probably the = 310 too. I=20 offered to do this for the AOPA so they could show folks what user = fees are=20 all about (one picture is worth a thousand words) but they ignored=20 me

 

Mike, I hope all of this hasn=92t discouraged you, it is an = incredible=20 experience for many reasons, not the least of which will be the other = pilots you=20 meet doing the same thing.

Europe is actually very small, = and if it=20 weren=92t for the airspace and bureaucracy would be easy to get around. = I had been=20 going to Europe for 25 years on business but never got to the Channel = Islands,=20 the Isle of Mann, Le Mans (the airport is next to the track), = Donegal  or circled Omaha beach at = under 1000 ft.=20 I did in the 310 and will again in my = IVP.

 

We had great weather, stopped in 9 countries, flew 18 legs in = 12 days,=20 got as far south as Geneva all in 20 days. We had tail winds both ways. = I have=20 never complained about head winds since then, and never will = again!

 

Hope this=20 helps

Regards

Bruce
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