X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:59:34 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from gateway1.stoel.com ([198.36.178.141] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1083156 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:49:59 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=198.36.178.141; envelope-from=JJHALLE@stoel.com Received: from PDX-SMTP.stoel.com (unknown [172.16.103.137]) by gateway1.stoel.com (Firewall Mailer Daemon) with ESMTP id E8641EB3B6 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PDX-MX6.stoel.com ([172.16.103.64]) by PDX-SMTP.stoel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:49:13 -0700 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: AOA X-Original-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:49:13 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <17E9FE5945A57A41B4D8C07737DB6072037256A2@PDX-MX6.stoel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: lml Digest #1586 Thread-Index: AcZpvERYQuMfxv5HQ4e7g75sm/cXcQAU1Y+g From: "Halle, John" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2006 15:49:13.0909 (UTC) FILETIME=[22011650:01C66A12] Terrence O'Neill writes: <> I flew some of those planes and there is no question that AOA was an = essential tool for carrier-type approaches and landings (which Navy = tactical pilots do whether the approach is to a carrier or not.) Those = approaches are flown at or near L/Dmax and are very different from the = kinds of approaches flown by civilian pilots (or, for that matter, the = Air Force.) The airspeed indicator was neither accurate enough nor = quick enough to handle these kinds of approaches. There simply is no = reason for any experienced civilian pilot to get anywhere near stall = speed low except in a flare over the runway and therefore no need for = the kind of precision and quick response afforded by an AOA. I don't have a problem if someone wants to put an AOA in their airplane = but if they are relying on it to tell them when they are close to a = stall, I highly recommend that the go out and practice stalls or = approaches thereto (at various g loadings) until they know what an = approach to a stall feels like. We also did ACM in the same Navy planes = equipped with the same AOAs but no one looked at them during ACM -- = there was no time and looking away from the target was a serious = mistake. We flew on the edge of stall by feel. Looking at a number of recent accident reports makes me think that a = number of non-military pilots have a problem with understanding = aircraft performance at high angles of bank and high g loadings. We get = the idea of how to avoid 1g stalls in the pattern fairly quickly but I = see report after report of experienced pilots stalling out while pulling = high g's low or trying to get to a runway after an engine failure by = doing a very steep turn and not understanding what happens to sink rate = if you do that. Anyone that is truly concerned about inadvertent stalls should carefully = consider taking some serious unusual attitude training (not the stuff = you do for pilot certificates but serious unusual attitudes.) If you = still have money left after that, by all means, put in an AOA if you = like it.