X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Sender: To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:50:27 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [207.254.33.66] (HELO DEWEY2.Cadwell.cadwell.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c2) with ESMTP id 690333 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 12:10:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.254.33.66; envelope-from=CarlC@Cadwell.com Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5AFD8.C07EA6EA" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Subject: Carl's involiotable rules and ice X-Original-Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 09:09:52 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <63D0A1D8F168684F8502C4B8A229D79163D532@DEWEY2.Cadwell.cadwell.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Carl's involiotable rules and ice Thread-Index: AcWv2MB1i3wB8OFfSh2kbvQkqcP1cA== From: "Carl Cadwell" X-Original-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5AFD8.C07EA6EA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Colyn wrote:=20 Good list. =20 A lot of IVP drives say "stay out of the ice". Does your list keep you out of the ice or just have you do something if = you get in it? Is that safe enough with that wing? =20 My Answer: First, I consciously fly to avoid ice. Then I know ahead of time what I = am going to do if I encounter ice. =20 Living in Washington State, I have more than enough opportunity to think = this through. =20 If there is ice forecast or reported, I will flight plan above or below = the forecast level. Above is preferred as the mountains are usually in = the ice layers and you have more options. Remember that the heaviest = ice is usually at the top of the icing layer so climbing out, may not be = an option. First signs of ice. I do something at the first sign of ice. I usually climb, go to a level = where ice is not reported, go between layers and know that I can go = somewhere to get out of ice-down to warm air, back where I came = from-somewhere-- and I know where that somewhere is. Choose your descent paths carefully. The STAR let down into the Seattle area from the east is over the = mountains to levels that usually contain the ice. If there is ice being = reported then I will request a let down over the Seattle area, so I can = descend directly into warm air. If there is not warm air below, this is = a no go. Note: On one occasion, I picked up =BD" ice in 1500' = descending at 1000 fpm. If I had done the STAR let down and leveled off = over the mountains, this would have been really ugly at best and worst = would be an NTSB report. If they had not given me the let down over = Seattle, I would have done a 180. THIS WAS A DECISION I MADE BEFORE I = LAUNCHED. Seattle ARTCC is really great at accommodating us on such = occasions.=20 Choose your climb routes carefully. I will climb where the clouds aren't. If I see dark clouds looming on = my climb out and lighter clouds 40 degrees to the right, I will request = a climb to the lighter clouds. I will also climb where WxWorx Nexrad = returns show areas of less or no precipitation. I have on rare occasions = climbed in the opposite direction I am going to get above the icing = reported over the mountains and then cross over the mountains. =20 Avoid Precipitation: Since I have been flying with WxWorx (2+ years), I have had only one = instance of getting some ice on that was more than just a slight trace. = I attribute this to the ability to stay away from precipitation. These = planes are so fast, that diverting just is not that big of a deal. I = fly around areas of heaviest precipitation to areas of no precipitation = or very light precipitation. On 2 occasions I have flown over 100 miles = diverting around thunderstorms. I don't even think twice about doing = this, I just go around. Performance degradation:=20 So what is my experience of ice on the plane? I have had up to =BD" of = rime ice on the leading edge. It slows the plane about 10 kts and = decreases the rate of climb to about 500-700 fpm from 1000-1200 fpm. = There are no other noticeable effects on the flying characteristics of = the plane. I have always flown to an area of warm air before landing so = I don't know about the effects on approach speeds. I do know that if I = had ice still on, that my approach speeds to landing would be faster = than normal to prevent a tail stall. I would use 120 kts to touchdown = in this instance. Another pilot returning from OSH over Montana, entered a build up at = FL240, had a hard time keeping the blue side up and feels lucky to be = alive. He put on large hail balls on the leading edge of 1.5", took off = paint on the cowling and lost one strobe lens. He landed ASAP to survey = the damage. He reports that there were no problems with flying the = plane with all the ice on. =20 This is not intended to embolden you, only to get you to think through = all the scenarios and outs. Carl Cadwell, IVP, N25CL ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5AFD8.C07EA6EA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carl's involiotable rules and ice

Colyn = wrote:

Good = list.=A0=A0

A lot = of IVP drives say "stay out of the ice".

Does = your list keep you out of the ice or just have you do something if you = get in it?

Is = that safe enough with that wing?

=A0

My Answer:

First, I consciously fly to avoid = ice.  Then I know ahead of time what I am going to do if I = encounter ice. 

Living in Washington State, I have = more than enough opportunity to think this through. 

If there is ice forecast or = reported, I will flight plan above or below the forecast level.  = Above is preferred as the mountains are usually in the ice layers and = you have more options.  Remember that the heaviest ice is usually = at the top of the icing layer so climbing out, may not be an = option.

First signs of ice.

I do something at the first sign of = ice.  I usually climb, go to a level where ice is not reported, go = between layers and know that I can go somewhere to get out of = ice—down to warm air, back where I came from—somewhere-- and = I know where that somewhere is.

Choose your descent paths carefully.

The STAR let down = into the Seattle area from the east is over the mountains to levels that usually contain the = ice.  If there is ice being reported then I will request a let down = over the Seattle area, so I can descend directly = into warm air. If there is not warm air = below, this is a no go.  Note:  On = one occasion, I picked up =BD” ice in = 1500’ descending at 1000 fpm.  If I had done the STAR let down and = leveled off over the mountains, this would have been = really = ugly at best and worst would be an NTSB report.  If they = had not given me the let down over Seattle, I would have done a = 180.  THIS WAS A DECISION = I MADE BEFORE I LAUNCHED. Seattle ARTCC is really great at accommodating us on such occasions.

Choose your climb routes carefully.

I = will climb where the clouds aren’t.  = If I see dark clouds looming on = my climb out and lighter clouds 40 degrees to the right, I will request a climb to the lighter = clouds.  I = will = also climb where WxWorx Nexrad returns show areas of less or = no precipitation. I have on rare occasions climbed in the opposite direction = I am going to get above the icing reported over the mountains and then = cross over the mountains. 

Avoid Precipitation:

Since = I have been flying with WxWorx (2+  years), I have had only one instance of getting some ice = on that was more than just a slight trace.  I attribute this to = the ability to stay away from precipitation.  These planes are so = fast, that diverting just is not that big of a = deal.  I fly around areas of = heaviest = precipitation to areas of no precipitation or very light precipitation.  On 2 occasions I have flown over 100 miles diverting = around thunderstorms.  I don’t even think twice about = doing this, I just go around.

Performance degradation:

So what is my = experience of ice on the plane?  = I have had up to =BD”  of rime ice on the leading edge.  = It slows the plane about 10 kts and decreases the rate of climb = to about = 500-700 fpm from 1000-1200 fpm.  = There = are no other noticeable effects on the flying = characteristics of the plane.  I have always flown to an area of warm air before landing so I = don’t know about the effects on approach speeds.  I do = know that if I had ice still on, that my approach speeds to = landing would be faster than normal to prevent a tail = stall.  I would use 120 kts = to touchdown in this instance.

Another pilot returning from OSH over Montana, entered a = build up at FL240, had a hard time keeping the blue side up and feels = lucky to be alive.  He put on large hail balls on the leading edge = of 1.5”, took off paint on the = cowling and lost one strobe lens.  He landed ASAP to survey the = damage.  He reports that there were no problems with flying the = plane with all the ice = on. 

This = is not intended to embolden you, only to get you to think through all = the scenarios and outs.


Carl Cadwell, IVP, N25CL

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