Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:26:16 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [206.246.194.60] (HELO visi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP id 383594 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:46:00 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.246.194.60; envelope-from=rpastusek@htii.com X-Virus-Scanner: ClamAV Received: from [69.143.104.75] (HELO cp172883-b.arlngt01.va.comcast.net) by visi.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with SMTP id 22414317 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:43:01 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Bob Pastusek" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Subject: RE: [LML] Micro use for Wings X-Original-Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:43:54 -0400 X-Original-Message-ID: <008a01c48df8$22670840$6601a8c0@cp172883-b.arlngt01.va.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01C48DD6.9B556840" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C48DD6.9B556840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I Would like to know if we are useing micro to fill the low spots in the wings or there is something easier or better. I heard different things on this subject and would like a update before I get to far along.. New to this site been reading it for the past couple of weeks. Thanks for your help . Jeff Paden IVP 70% Jeff, Jim White and I used micro on our wings (2x IV-P's). We tried PolyFibre's "Superfill" first. It was harder to apply evenly, but easier to sand. We also had lots of small voids that required re-filling. In the end, we mixed the micro with a bit more epoxy than normal so it tended to "self level" a bit during cure. I'm sure this added weight, but resulted in a fairly smooth surface that was easier to work, and provided a pretty durable surface. I once asked an experience builder how one knew when he'd sanded and smoothed the surface enough. His answer was, "You never sand enough, you just get sick and tired of sanding and paint it." I have found that to be an accurate statement of fact. There are a number of "tricks" to working the surfaces, but no substitute for serious sanding. We were initially pretty conservative in applying micro, resulting in several "fills" to level and smooth an area--that usually turned out to be several times larger than first anticipated. We finally caught on that it's better to apply lots of micro over an area well larger than you initially think necessary, then sand the whole area down until you have the shape desired, and the original skin just starts to come through. If you're not smooth and flat at that point, reapply micro. Sanding into the skin/structure when you're "close" is not an answer... If you live on the east coast and want to stop by the Manassas Airport (Washington DC suburb), I'd be glad to share what we learned during building. A better source is one of the "experts" who've finished and painted a number of Lancairs. Brad Simmons (btsim1@earthlink.net) in Milan, TN is one such expert, and I can personally recommend him, but there are others. Jim and I paid Brad to come to the shop and critique our planes when we thought they were ready for paint. It took us most of a year to correct the problems he found--my plane looked like a kid's doodle board when he finished--pencil marks everywhere. When we actually delivered it to Brad a year later for painting, he said, "fair." I have no illusions about building a show plane, but the finish has been a humbling experience... One of the important things we learned from Brad was the right sanding tools and materials to use. Brad recommended 3M's "gold" sandpaper for final shaping and finish sanding. It costs about 30% more than "regular" paper, but outlasts it several times, and does not clog. Available at any good automotive paint shop. 80 grit for shaping and smoothing; up to 400 grit for "blocking." The second is to use as large a sanding pad/board as you can for the area. Smaller pads tend to make very small hills and valleys that show up easily when you add paint. The techniques these guys can pass on go well beyond a short note like this, but are worth learning! Bob ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C48DD6.9B556840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I Would like to know if we are useing = micro to fill=20 the low spots in the wings or there is something easier or better.  = I heard=20 different things on this subject and would like a update before I get to = far=20 along..  New to this site been reading it for the past couple of = weeks.=20 Thanks for your help .
 
Jeff Paden   IVP  = 70% 
 
Jeff, 
 
Jim White and I used micro on our wings (2x IV-P's). We = tried=20 PolyFibre's "Superfill" first. It was harder to apply evenly, = but=20 easier to sand. We also had lots of small voids that = required re-filling. In the end, we mixed the micro with a bit = more=20 epoxy than normal so it tended to "self level" a bit during = cure. I'm=20 sure this added weight, but resulted in a fairly smooth surface = that was=20 easier to work, and provided a pretty durable surface.=20  I once asked an = experience=20 builder how one knew when he'd sanded and smoothed the surface enough. = His=20 answer was, "You never sand enough, you just get sick and tired of = sanding and=20 paint it." I have found that to be an accurate statement of=20 fact.
 
There are a number of "tricks" to working the = surfaces,=20 but no substitute for serious sanding. We were initially pretty = conservative in=20 applying micro, resulting in several "fills" to level and smooth an = area--that=20 usually turned out to be several times larger than first anticipated. We = finally=20 caught on that it's better to apply lots of micro over an area well = larger than=20 you initially think necessary, then sand the whole area down until you = have the=20 shape desired, and the original skin just starts to come through. If = you're not=20 smooth and flat at that point, reapply micro. Sanding into the = skin/structure=20 when you're "close" is not an answer...
 
If you live on the east coast and want to = stop by the=20 Manassas Airport (Washington DC suburb), I'd be glad to share what we = learned=20 during building. A better source is one of the "experts" who've finished = and=20 painted a number of Lancairs. Brad Simmons (btsim1@earthlink.net) in Milan, = TN is one=20 such expert, and I can personally recommend him, but there are others. = Jim and I=20 paid Brad to come to the shop and critique our planes when we thought = they were=20 ready for paint. It took us most of a year to correct the problems he = found--my=20 plane looked like a kid's doodle board when he finished--pencil marks=20 everywhere. When we actually delivered it to Brad a year later for = painting, he=20 said, "fair." I have no illusions about building a show plane, but the = finish=20 has been a humbling experience...
 
One of the important things we learned from = Brad was=20 the right sanding tools and materials to use. Brad recommended 3M's = "gold"=20 sandpaper for final shaping and finish sanding. It costs about 30% more = than=20 "regular" paper, but outlasts it several times, and does not clog. = Available at=20 any good automotive paint shop. 80 grit for shaping and smoothing; up to = 400=20 grit for "blocking." The second is to use as large a sanding pad/board = as you=20 can for the area. Smaller pads tend to make very small hills and valleys = that=20 show up easily when you add paint. The techniques these guys can pass on = go well=20 beyond a short note like this, but are worth=20 learning!
 
Bob
 
 
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